The Good Men Project recently pondered, what’s a man without money?
That’s a good question. 
I’ve never been one to focus on money — my own or someone else’s — or see it as a path to happiness. Now that I’m at midlife, however, and helping to get two kids through college, hoping to retire one day, and dealing with the never-ending costs of living (my broken clavicle cost me a lot of money, despite my health insurance, and my car appears to have an electrical problem, no doubt a pricey problem, that I need to deal with ASAP), I think about money a wee bit more. I still don’t equate it to whether I am happy or not (and never will), although I acknowledge money certainly makes things easier.
I never made a lot of money in my career — newspaper journalism — but that didn’t stop men from dating me, or two men from marrying me. I am fortunate to have a wonderful longtime partner (who, as an educator, knows all about small salaries), but I sometimes wonder what would happen if I lost my job and was looking for love — would I be marriage material (assuming I even wanted to marry again, that is, which I don’t), or even dateable?
Let’s forget my age for now (and maybe longer!); by virtue of my gender alone, yes — I would probably be viable relationship material. But if I were an unemployed man — regardless of age — would the same rules apply? Probably not (although I imagine a certain amount of women would eagerly entangle themselves if he was hot; yes, we gals can be incredibly shallow, too).
Unemployed, under-employed and low-income men are just not good dating or marriage material in the eyes of many women.
That’s why the pro-marriage people have it all wrong when they say marriage will get low-income women out of poverty. While studies have shown that low-income women value marriage and have more traditional views about marriage and divorce than others, they don’t want to get hitched to a man who is going to drag them down. A man who isn’t contributing financially is a handicap, as one young single mother says in Promises I Can Keep: Why Poor Women Put Motherhood Before Marriage: “What was his purpose? I started thinking, ‘I don’t need him.’ He was just like an extra burden. It was actually easier without him.”
I’m sure I’m not the only girl growing up whose mother told her that it’s just as easy to love a rich guy as it is to love a poor one. A few years ago, the book Smart Girls Marry Money: How Women Have Been Duped into the Romantic Dream — and How They’re Paying for It advised women to do just that.
I’m not sure many — any — boys get the same message, and even in this presumably enlightened age, I just can’t see a parent encouraging a son to “marry up.”
Earlier this summer, a study (OK, funded by a credit report agency so I take it with a grain of salt) indicated financial responsibility and financial compatibility was more important or just as important as career ambition, physical attraction and sex and intimacy, especially for women.
It never even occurred to me to worry about such things (I’ve never discussed credit ratings with a partner), but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have paid it some attention when it seemed like things were getting serious.
A recent study seems to indicate that we are stuck in a time warp when it comes to gender and money — we can’t get past the idea that a husband should make more money than his wife, and that is impacting whom we marry, how much a wife works, and even if a couple stays married. Among the interesting questions posed:
What happens when a man marries a woman who has the education and skills to earn more than him? The couple can avoid violating the “man earns more” social norm if the woman works part time or leaves the labor force altogether. The authors found evidence of both choices. But what if the woman stays in the labor force and does earn more than her spouse? How does this affect the marriage? The findings here are striking. In such couples, surveys show, both wife and husband generally report being less happy about the marriage.
So, here’s how it appears to work:
Unemployed, under-employed and low-paid women are still dateable and marriage material, while guys are not. Meanwhile, highly paid women are dateable and marriage material, as long as they don’t make more than their husbands.
If that isn’t proof about how far we haven’t come as a society, I don’t know what is.
- Would you marry a woman who made more money than you?
- Would you marry a man who made less money than you?
- Would you date someone (presumably temporarily) unemployed?
- Does it make a difference if a man doesn’t make a lot by virtue of his profession (artist, musician, teacher, etc.) or because he has low ambition?
Photo © Sean Arenas/Fotolia.com
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I totally agree with this article that broke men are way less likely to be in a relationship than are broke / low income women. I think it depends on what the debt is. For example, my ex-husband is 50k in debt. His debt is IRS (nearly 20k), a Cadillac at $400 / mo which he can’t afford, and odds and ends credit cards. That type of debt is NOT good and I would avoid him like the plague. It is NOT the reason WE divorced however. But … if you presented him to me with that debt in the early stages of dating …. I would not view him as marriage material. His income does NOT support that load and it also shows extreme carelessness.
Now, take my debt as a public servant. I have one 5k credit card and an 80k student loan. BUT …. my credit card will be paid off in a year and my student loan paid off in 10 years because I’m on the loan forgiveness program (they removed 18 years). And .. my student loan at 80k is $400 / mo. – which I’m perfectly capable of paying on my public servant salary. And my student loan monthly payment is 1/3 of that of my ex-husband.
So I have a higher debt load but the monthly payment is way lower AND it doesn’t involve the IRS and careless car purchases. When he told me wanted a divorce to pursue other women …. I just smiled and said, “Sure …. go for it!” He was dumb enough to do it.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
That’s a lot of debt, K.B. Did he have that before you married him, or was that a discovery after-the-fact?
I never asked any former partner or husband about his debt. I absolutely would do that now — however — if he was making good decisions and paying it down, it wouldn’t be a deal-breaker. I’d just get a prenup 😉
Yea let’s see you get that
Wow our world is sick, most the women in this threat is twisted and disgusting.
Before this modern world where the women stayed at home and men worked to provide, women were never looked on down as being less, as being lazy, unworthy and all the other perverted views I have read here of what the call men, who are unable to provide.
Majority of the time, if a man (or woman) does not have work, or is low earning etc, most the time it has nothing to do with laziness, be “smart” or being a loser as many women like to call them.
There is majority the time other legitimate reasons, such as lack of work and opportunities, medical or other conditions, that are often out of the control of anyone.
But women seem to be from these post for the most part, gold diggers, self serving narcissists, who care nothing for anyone other then getting them self ahead.
If they don’t have money, then they want a guy with money. If they have money, then they want a guy with more money, while at the same time crying sexism in the work place to get them selves for elite privileges over everyone else, just so they can have all the shiny things, travel and live the good life.
Sure there are shallow bastards in the world, who treat others and their women like shit, only want the hotties etc … and strangely these are always the types that the women seem to want while they complain about them, they ignore and dismiss all the good guys of the world, cause they’re labeled “boring” or losers cause they don’t own enough shit.
The majority of men are good guys, hard working, responsible and seeking a committed faithful relationship. Besides the fact that getting work had always been a challenge in the past through out history, for what ever the reason … have you considered that in the modern world, the new career women force has taken a HUGE amount of available work possibilities away from men, leaving them unemployed and without opportunity?
Yet again, women were never considered losers or lazy and unworthy when they never had jobs, men were very happy to provide for the ones they love.
Honestly, where are any good women who have the decency to treat men the same with same respect and consideration … something called “equality” … anyone ever heard of this?
The women on here are truly sickening hearing their self absorbed twisted responses. Our world is screwed up and greed and the easy life has polluted the minds of the many.
Women should be ashamed, but clearly the have no such decency.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Dave, I highly encourage you to educate yourself. You can start with Stephanie Coontz’s Marriage: A History Then please come back here and tell us how it worked for women and men when “women were never considered losers or lazy and unworthy when they never had jobs.” We’ll be waiting. Happy new year.
You have 80k in debt and you’re trying to say it’s not as bad because the monthly payment is low? Honey that just means you’ll be in debt a long time because you’re more concerned with the monthly payment than paying it off, you’re nowhere near marriage material in my opinion.
K.B.’s 80K debt is on a STUDENT LOAN. Her exes 50K debt is on a car. Which debt do you think will have a greater return??????
It could actually be either… lol
Unless it’s a classic or antique car that is actually worth what was paid or even more, it’s not “either”. A student loan is a far better investment. And I can’t believe that needs to be spelled out.
Hi. After reading all these responses I just wanted to say how sad it makes me feel that compassion is lacking to such a degree that so many refer to a gender as whores or lazy even going as far as convincing others to leave the ones they love because of their financial difficulties. Are we trying to help make peoples lives better or rip them apart I can’t tell.
I do agree though that society has been try to change how we view men. We are always told to work until we die and if we are in debt we are failures. This is totally unrealistic when the cost of living was risen to such a point that it is impossible to get by on the average salary offered and are forced to go into debt to pay for basic expenses. These people are trying their best, they work 40+ hours a week. Even if they don’t make loads of money how can these people be considered lazy? How can you label these people as unlovable and leave them because they don’t meet your expectations? Please don’t fall into the trap placed by society to judge our fellow humans. Do not expect a fairy tale ending. If you work hard and he works hard and you love each other and you are respected and heard then shouldn’t that be enough. In a world where love is rare and abusive people are everywhere why make it so hard to make relationships work. Why place unreasonable expectations on others. Don’t value someone less because of the amount they make annually. Value someone by the effort they put in, the amount of heart they have and their trying to do the best they can in an impossible world. Not their ambition!
Reading this article & the comments, I’ve come to a conclusion.
Money can not only buy love, but it can also buy happiness.
MONEY MATTERS : your absolutely right …I agree with you money can buy you alot of things just not sexy ass sotaros..well FEI- FEI. Anyways to the one who writing about both parties working hard and romance this and that and how people shouldn’t abandon one another..your full of shit. If your fat, ugly and broke and you know it then great if your one of those crap that says looks don’t matter and all that shit, your just making excuses ..have you ever thought…hey crap like you might be causing all the problems …cause ya know you lying to yourself is worst than lying to others.
OK so if you guys can decide whether or not you wanna be with somebody based on the lack of a job or a job or not paid enough on a job if that determines the stop if that determines the worst of the person that you wanna be with don’t bother me enough so so you just decided to move on to somebody else who has more money more than well then you have to place that also on the plane field for women who are promised US prostitutes hoarse or due porn Yet then they are differently on the same field as not worth it they shouldn’t be with anybody either because if you’re basing enough of what they have or don’t have or what they’ve done or not done and not the person themselves the choices that they’ve made I can meet all the right choices in my life Just wasn’t able to grasp pineapple because well whatever ever everybody’s got their position in life well some people have a position in liwell some people have a position in life and they choose to you know do the immoral thing to make money the easiest thing in the world the legacy gets screwed for money so because those women make a lot of money do you think they’re worth more do you think the value is higher than the guy who is is highly moral very ethical very ethical God-fearing loves everything hes a good person he just doesn’t make a lot of money is the prostitute or whore who makes all that money better option than me
Maybe you need to get back to school and correct that English
You really can’t judge a man by what his yearly salary amounts to. I was a widow at 41 years old. My husband worked really hard in construction, but I had the education. I made a lot more than him, and never discounted the hard work he did. My career is part of what makes me who I am. My identity. I’ve had instances since my husband’s death where i’ve been taken advantage of financially. I want to point out, i’m still a strong, attractive female ( I modeled my way through college, plus worked 2 jobs, and have aged very well, thank you…. After dating a few men, I met a man who fell on pretty hard times. Good man who loves his children. I helped him get a degree, supported him, and lsst month married him in a leap of faith. Tune in and i’ll let you know how it goes. To men, be kind, considerate, respectful, and my motto is to treat everyone how you want to be treated. Go out of your way on a daily basis to make someone’s, ANYONE’S…day just a little better. A kind word on a daily basis goes a long way. My words to lI’ve by….Can’t hurt
“I want to point out, i’m still a strong, attractive female ( I modeled my way through college, plus worked 2 jobs, and have aged very well”
Narcissist detected
There is no such thing as “strong female”, you are just coping.
Okay…you’re great. I just had to tell you that. I really REALLY hope this guy treats you wonderfully and adores you.
My question is does the writer and the women on here suggesting that a low income man does not deserve to be loved and his punishment to spend life by himself?
Unless he lowers his beauty standards or shows he has ambition to improve his earning potential then yes. Poor men aren’t as lovable. They would have to settle.
For every woman here that says a man needs to make $ If he wants to date a attractive woman, there are 10 rich guys who will dump their money loving trophy wife when her looks fade for something more desirable . Women who expect the man to be the bread winner are, simply put, not the man’s equal. If a woman wants to be treated as an equal, she needs to make her own damn money and not use a man as an ATM. Marriage is not a good financial investment for men. sleep with whomever you want fellas, but if she’s not contributing like it’s a partnership instead of a sponsorship, next her so she can bleed someone else dry.
Susan,( If I understand you) “Poor men aren’t as lovable”. I have noticed that most of the women expressing (spouting) this sort of opinion have failed to consider certain scenarios. For example: You or your children are in a burning building, do you choose the man who is a wealthy and values his own pampered life, or the dirt-poor man, who, without fear or regard, rushes into the building to save you (or them). For another example: You are scarred by the fire in which you are caught. Do you choose the rich man who can afford to buyer a “newer model” and kick you to the curb, or the poor man who values you as a human being. How about intelligence, Morals, Ethics, self sacrifice…any of this ring a bell??!!
As a male who is in a lower income bracket, I have faced economic bigotry of this sort nearly from birth(along with racism). It disgusts me, Nauseates me, That this is considered “normal” in this country. I grew up in a town where the wealthy, Christian (“christian”)girls from private schools wouldn’t so much as spit on a poor kid if he was on fire,let alone consider dating him.
If your next arguement is to the effect ” why do you draw a dichotomy between the rich man doing the wrong thing, and the poor man doing the right thing”? My answer is very simple: In this country people DO NOT get rich from hard work, from intelligence, or from doing the “right thing”,but from Greed, Exploitation, Luck and opportunism. By being rich, He has already done the wrong thing!! If I need to simplify it further: Greed = Bad, Taking only what you need = Good. I cannot put the dots any closer than this.
All I can say is….HYPERGAMY is real. Yes woman do have more advantages in todays time and men do have to work harder in many ways to “go get the bacon” so to speak. But hypergamy exists because women are going to naturally pick the man that shows he can provide well. Finances plays a major part in that. I don’t mind us both putting in the work and contributing… but there are times when you should be able to lean on your significant other. That goes both ways! Financial strain and work burnout are real in America…especially with women. I am one and sometimes I really resent women’s rights to some degree bc most American women fail to see that we have already made it! We were designed to put all that workplace energy in our original workplaces. I do value being able to make my own money but I don’t want it to solely be on me forever. I am willing to work but I’d prefer to share the load. For most when most women start to take on more responsibilities in the relationship it weighs us down to the point that we do start to second guess whether or not he’s the right “helpmate”.
I think that if that’s the stance that most are going to take and obviously another articles a few years old if that’s the stance that most are going to take that they’re not worth it because they don’t have enough or they don’t feel they’re worth it because they don’t work enough or own enough property or whatever then on the flip side with the women are just not good enough anymore either most of them when the majority of women are promiscuous or doing prostitution or porn absolutely not they’re not worth it so of course I’d rather be a happy poor man and have no one over being just another one of the whores men.
I am a low paid male and looking at all these websites has confirmed my worst fears! I did not realise or understand the importance of a good education and job until to late and after my last girlfriend dumpingrme because of money issues I am close to giving up all together. Although she would never admit she left me because of money I know it was a huge factor, which is sad because she had her own house etc and I could of supported us on this low income as she earnt a very good amount of money. So this is it 30 single like normal and unable to get better work due to education mainly. I had one love but sjEd fast realised and I guess my replacement pointed out how little I earnt and now women over thd net dont wang to mnow men like myself. I care for thr elderly by the way and I wish I was dead, thanks for showing all men in my position we are better off dead no matter how loving we are.
It does not matter to me John…I’m interested in honesty, integrity, and a personality fit. I say this as a woman who makes more than the average income anyway.
We do exist. (I just have a different sort of baggage of my own.)
I am actually engaged to a man like you John. I knew about his financial status when we started dating and I was not happy since he didn’t even have a car and couldn’t drive. We both have the same degree, the problem is that he just has no luck finding a proper job. I have always been uneasy with this situation. On top of that he comes from a very poor background. He is a very good person, honest and loving. Now that we are engaged, he has no dollar in his account for our wedding. I have spent so much on him and it makes him sad that can’t afford to treat me and take me out and that he owes me a lot. But he has so much faith in turning his life around which is why I believe in him and gave him a chance. Anyone here thinking I might be making a mistake marrying him?
Honestly, you are waaay too nice. Spending money on him is like mothering him. Don’t be surprised if he ends up resenting you or chasing after a women that isn’t so accommodating. You give him a chance AFTER he starts acting like an adult.
Women like you anna are why guys would rather stay single. Clearly this lady respects her man. He he definitely appreciates that. If hes trying give him a chance. Im on the verge of starting a relationship with a lady. Im quite broke because of an accident on a wrongly insured car and taking out a loan for an mba coupled with some health debts. Good to know that there are woman out there that would give me a chance☺
When a male takes care of the house supported financially, it’s seen as babysitting the male. When a female takes care of the house and supported financially, it’s seen as babysitting the male.
Another problem, female home makers decide how to organize and decorate everything, male home makers don’t decide any of it and arguments happen.
Sexism at high level.
Anna is right in a way, if a women keeps taking care of him regardless of how much faith he might have, he may never grow up.
It is long ago, so I do not know if this will be read but anyway.
You see Anna, you are the very reason why the world is crap. Just making things black or white.
The issue is why he is not solvable, because he is lazy? that is problem,
because he spends it all on latest phone? sport cars? Drinks, designer clothing, that is a problem..
One need to look at the priorities of the guy. Women like you will love for what is in the hands not what is in the heart and see how the man can contribute to the life of the couple independently of money.
I let you know two things, first money can disappear overnight, a boss can go under if market conditions change for example (ah yes, not a problem, you can then dump the guy you said I love you whatever…), meaning you not only love for the wrong reasons, it is actually not love, but those reasons can be very fleeting. Also, dear, in the same way as you discard a penniless man, do not be surprised that a man will dump you when you start to be old and not so desirable.
You want a materialistic game, you have it, and please do not complain about it, because they are just your rules.
Also, if you experience a bad bout of health at the menopause, well, do not be surprised your man leaves you (thanks to my profession, I can tell you that many men leave for that reason), because actually he also has other things to do than mothering you with this problem, same if you get seriously sick. And while I am there, once you have a saggy belly due to kids, well, do not be surprised and complain when your man is going for a nice chick behind your back.
Lastly, know that men with this attractive leadership, managerial jobs, ambition are more likely to do what I mentioned above. Want the money? get what goes with it!
Oh, and I am glad I always kept secret my reasonable (not rich) finances, I could have ended with someone like you.
Anna is spot on. I loved the hell out of my man and supported him financially like Marato is doing. Supposedly I was the love of his life. He left me suddenly for a woman who has no money or means to help financially. Incredibly HARD PAINFUL lesson to learn but its 100% true.
Hey Luc:
You sound like a lonely old man with a chip on his shoulder, maybe you should wake up before you are old and mangled yourself. Nobody wants to feel disrespected unappreciated or undermined. Time is precious and if your mind is so warped maybe you should buy a robot, obviously you can’t and won’t ever be able to maintain a true loving relationship because if you don’t give it your all you shouldn’t expect a woman to either. If you want something real you have to be real, you can’t play life by your own set of rules and games. You’re playing against yourself in the end, and once you realize it it’ll be too late.
I agree with you Anna to an extent. I do believe that a lot of men that are “mothered” end up not respecting their partner and leaving them or cheating on them. At least this has been my experience.
Do NOT marry him. It’s fine that you are giving him a chance, but you are in way too deep. I agree with Anna. Break off the engagement, take a few steps back. Unfortunately, I just ended a relationship where I was the spender giving him a chance too. We moved in together right away. All it did was make me miserable, and enabled him to do nothing but enjoy my comfy home and chill in front of my TV all day while I busted my ass all day at work. I’ve paid for everything including his child support twice. This relationship lasted 4 months and though, unbelievably I still love this guy, I should have never shared a residence with him. I saw the warning signs early but ignored them. He says he will pay me back, but honestly, I’m not holding my breath. I am certain my generosity and good heart made me a weak and and easy target in his eyes. You have to make them EARN your love and respect. And you do this by not giving your money and trust away.
My boyfriend is a CPA but he can’t retain a job… during the last year he has changes jobs frequently… I don’t know if is bad luck or if he is lazy… I graduated after him luckily I have a good job and making more money than him… Usually I paid most of our dates… I leave alone and support myself… He still leaving at his parent’s house… I love him but I don’t like that he is not financially stable… I just wonder when he is going to growth up… he is already 30
I want to married him but he is not stable
Don’t marry him, you will regret later! I was in this kind of relationship, you will never be happy as you end up giving all the time and you never get anything back, if he’s broke now, he is always broke as he will never step up, he’s got no money so he should work harder now and to get there.
When a male takes care of the house supported financially, it’s seen as babysitting the male. When a female takes care of the house and supported financially, it’s seen as babysitting the male.
Sexism at high level.
Horrible, putting everyone in the same bag.
your guy may have been poor and bad. They need to be distinguished from a poor but kind, helpful and genuinely loving guy who will do way more at home and for the kids than any other man will and stay by your side no matter what, getting wrinkly, depressed, sick, or simply old. You are just bitter you got a bad one, so please consider that there are also poor but awesome guys around (not the majority, though, that is true). Also, see my other comment to Anna
I don’t think you making a Mistake because he actually try to have a better income just haven’t find a job yet but when one open up , he be ready now if he didn’t have a career field yes .
I am reading thru some of the comments..And I have ALWAYS been a firm believer that a female should NOT be the one constantly giving and giving in a relationship esp to a man she just met. A man like that will NOT appreciate it because you have given him nothing to work for. Men appreciate it when its not given to them so easy……another thing that bothers me that I have been reading in this comment section. Is the fact that alot of women are very open with discussing their salaries with men off the break. Big NO NO..Alot of men see that as a gold ticket. They will not tell you this of course but many do see it this way. You need to play it like you are doing okay and managing thats about it. Do not go into detail about your finances esp if you make a decent salary. Personally I am very very good at reading men. Alot of men will tell you that they are doing well off when they arent just to win you over. And unfortunately some females do fall for this.
People will always have opinions…my advice to you is…don’t try to see something that’s not there but also don’t ignore something that’s there. ONLY YOU know what or who you’re with. Follow your heart but pray first, ask God if this isn’t the one than show you very plainly and let HIM break up the relationship. People can have much money and NO HEART…but there are some with no money but AN AWESOME HEART. I don’t believe it’s always the man with the money but you know in your heart, he’s good to you treats you like a lady, but not a player. Pray precious for God to show you because ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART OF US ALL.:) So to the lady that says she’s really good article
at reading men, naaaaw, you THINK you are but how many times will YOU ADMIT…WHAT YOU THOUGH YOU SAW, WASN’T WHAT YOU THOUGHT. UNLESS YOU’RE GOD, I DONT KNOW YOU, BUT I FEEL YOU ARE WRONG AND ITS BECAUSE OF YOUR CHOICES. So please be careful trying to read people, it’s not always what it looks like… and by no means make an assumption…you know what they say about assuming. 😁Just fyi.
TOTALLY AGREE!!!
It all comes down to this. Women are incapable of LOVE. LOVE is when you care more about another person then you do your own self. Meaning you would sacrifice yourself for that person. Men are clearly capable of loving women as they prove everytime they couple themselves with a woman that makes less money then they do. Men recognize what a financial burden women are, yet they are willing engage these women because they LOVE them. Men prioritize the women they LOVE above themselves. We do not see this behavior from women. As this article and the corresponding comment thread clearly reveals women will only engage men that either make as much money as them or more. Their loyalty and companionship is conditional on whether or not the man is bringing in more money than they are. From a womans perspective a man must be investing more into the relationship than she is otherwise it isnt worth it. Strictly business. At no point do we see a relationship between a harworking woman that supports her husband that stays home and looks after the children. One would be hard pressed to find instances where a woman makes even slightly more than her husband without the subject quickly becoming a point of contention. Why, that would require an amount of selflessness that women are incapable of. Women are nothing but WHORES and GROUPIES. They hang around as long as the gravy train is up and running. But once they have drained a man of everything he was worth they walk away and never look back. Once a man realizes this fact of nature everything women do begins to make perfect sense. Women’s motives arent anymore mysterious then that of the most common of street hookers. If you want to attract women, flaunt your wealth. If you want them to avoid you, dress like a bum. As a man you must always recognize that no matter what a woman says or does SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU. You are her workhorse. She will work you as much as she can to get the most out of you but the second you show any weakness she will put you down and make sausage out of you. What this article is really saying,if you read between the lines, is that women have nothing to offer men that they cant get from an escort and a nanny. So stop asking where all the good men have gone. They finally realized that all of you are just a bunch of whores, so they lost interest in you. Every dollar I earn goes to ME. Not some selfish whore that needs a man to live her life for her. My earnings keep growing and all of you whores keep getting older, fatter and somehow more selfish. So why would a man want to keep a leeching whore like you around? Especially when he’s got the money to wine you and dine you then pump you and dump you. He could repeat the process over and over with different women because who gives a shit about these whores. They dont love men. They love money. So fuck them and drop them off at the nearest bus stop.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
From The Big Flip: There’s been a shift.
40% of American working wives now out-earn their husbands. That number is projected to keep climbing, with more women earning college degrees than men now, and young women’s ambitions for high-paying jobs outstripping young men’s. In 15 years, women are projected not just to close the income gap with men—but to reverse it and out-earn men on average.
But how do all these social shifts translate into the home, inside the bedroom?
Here are some sobering facts.
Husbands whose wives make more money are 61% less likely to say they’re happy
Wives who are primary breadwinners are also significantly less happy about their family lives than other women
Men are 5 times more likely to cheat when they’re financially dependent on their wives
Divorce is 40% more likely when a women makes over 60% of the family’s income
Much of the discussion around this topic so far has focused on the broader business and economic consequences of this shift. All that is great for academics, economists and media pundits.
But for the real women and men living these changes, no one has really dove in, to look at things from their perspective.
No one is exploring the daily decisions, struggles and victories they face. No one is asking the questions—big, small and unexpected—that they encounter as they navigate this new frontier of what it means to be a man, a woman, a couple, and a family. Questions like…
What does it mean to be a good mom when mommy works?
What do we say, when people ask what I do/what my husband does?
Do I need some silk lingerie and girly dresses to balance out the power suits?
How should one tackle the delicate topic of “pocket money” for the husband?
Is there a more inspiring image of the stay-at-home dad than Mr. Mom?
Messenger:
I’m sure there’s reason to feel the way you do. However, not everything is what it seems. I’m a female breadwinner. I remained single for years, during which time I purchased my own home, and maintained it with my own hands. I earn more than every man I’ve ever dated. Yet I treat my mate with dignity and respect. I am a legal professional, and my dear one is a carpenter . . . The funny thing is, he is the first man I have met that it didn’t bother. For some men, the “he who has the gold makes the rules” theory precludes them from being in a loving, respectful relationship with a woman who has greater earnings than they do. To them, being the ‘authority’ and maintaing their self esteem is contingent upon the hierarchy of the pay scale. Despite my mate’s lower income, I still cook and clean for him – because I love and respect him and that’s how he understands my affection. I have not “turned him into the woman” so to speak. I listen to him and seek his advise; conversely, he patiently listens to my opinion as well. The key is applying Bible standards. Both mates are to be industrious; both are to put the needs of the other ahead of their own. Recognizing and utilizing strengths rather than criticizing and emphasizing weaknesses fosters mutual love and respect. We are a team, one not defined or categorized by dogmatic social biases. The bottom line is people in general can be selfish, or self-sacrificing. Whether one trait or the other is exhibited by predominantly one gender – well there are many opinions and “studies” out there. Opinions, however, are often biased and do more harm than good in relationships. Love, justice, wisdom, patience, and hard work are a lot more useful in starting and maintaining a successful relationship.
Yes there are women who prefer Money to Love, it does’t make all women money lovers. As a Man ain’t you shy that your wife , girl friend or fiancée is feeding you, clothing you ,paying rents and every other thing for you. If you are not financially stable why get married or date , use that dating time to find a job and earn enough to be stable period.Don’t get married when you are financially unstable and have children who would end up lacking basic necessity of life due to you instabilities.
MessengerOfRighteousTruth:When you say “Women are whores” I hope you remember that you didn’t fall from the sky and that a woman gave birth to you.I hope you remember that you Grandmother,Mother,Aunts and Sister or sisters are women. I don’t know if you have or will have a daughter remember she is a woman. So when you say women are whores remember your mum is a woman. It’s high time people respect womanhood pls. Make your point without insulting women.
Hahahaha, hahahaha what a bitter dude some gal got you good in the past did she . Pockets still hurts. You sound crazy mad and so bitter it’s hilarious. No one cares as much as you read Genesis in the Bible maybe you’ll feel better about your role as a man
Women are capable of love. The struggle comes when women are busting their butt at work to bring home a good salary, and still have to come home to cook, clean and take care of the kids (because most men in America still expect that to be the woman’s job). Most men these days are expecting their woman to do it all while they remain pathetic and lazy.
I had a boyfriend that I supported for two years and a half. I worked a job that men struggled doing, and made 3x’s more than him with one random day off a week. I was still expected to cook, and clean. I bought him steak dinners, nice clothes, paid all the bills, basically babied him. I had no issue with it until I noticed just exactly how lazy he really was. I gave him several options that I offered to support him with, which was to help him get his B.A., Associates, trade school, or military and he refused to do any. I re-designed and re-wrote his resume, so he could job hunt, which he never did in his free time. I finally got fed up and figured that if I was going to struggle, I could do that all on my own.
MessengerOfRighteousTruth
I’m a 53 guy and from my experience you’re post is unfortunately the truth. One woman I lived with for five years basically dumped me all the while continuously telling me how much she loved me, was the perfect guy, and her soul mate. Lies.
Within a year she’s with someone else and “loves him so much”according to her Facebook posts. How do you become nobody after living together for five years? Your post answers that question.
Yes, you are better off paying for an escort, no drama. And it will cost you a hell of a lot less.
Joe
You sound like a lonely old man with a chip on his shoulder, maybe you should wake up before you are old and mangled yourself. Nobody wants to feel disrespected unappreciated or undermined. Time is precious and if your mind is so warped maybe you should buy a robot, obviously you can’t and won’t ever be able to maintain a true loving relationship because if you don’t give it your all you shouldn’t expect a woman to either. If you want something real you have to be real, you can’t play life by your own set of rules and games. You’re playing against yourself in the end, and once you realize it it’ll be too late.
You sound like a lonely old man with a chip on his shoulder, maybe you should wake up before you are old and mangled yourself. Nobody wants to feel disrespected unappreciated or undermined. Time is precious and if your mind is so warped maybe you should buy a robot, obviously you can’t and won’t ever be able to maintain a true loving relationship because if you don’t give it your all you shouldn’t expect a woman to either. If you want something real you have to be real, you can’t play life by your own set of rules and games. You’re playing against yourself in the end, and once you realize it it’ll be too late.
TheRabbit : You are just the exception, and exception doesn’t make the norm.
Michelle : Feminist detected
Good News : Feminist detected
Bonaventura: You say that like it’s a bad thing 😉
Anyone who thinks money is important just to love and be with someone are by reason blind. Simply for this reason society is twisted and almost half the population of today’s world worships money like its their God, bit of bad news for you all the Bible clearly states this world will pass away and everything of the world with it. Yet if our life and our trust is in Jesus Christ who died for us and we confess him as lord, we already have everything we need, money is a false hope that blinds many who chase after it. The point of this message is ” If you can’t see the true value out of life and money takes up all your time, having placed your love and trust in money then when you lose that money your foundation will fall and you will be cold and alone. Relationships are more important than money and life is only found in Jesus Christ, not in the abundance of money or possessions.”
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
David, there are many religions that don’t believe in Jesus (or the Bible) and there are many atheists and agnostics. Life is found in Jesus for you and maybe others, but certainly not everyone. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you David. I am glad that you feel comfortable talking about Jesus and don’t allow yourself to be hushed up by non-believers.
But then, David, it isn’t about money. It’s about respect and responsibility. If someone is lazy and expecting the other person to do all the work, that is an issue other than “money.” Or if someone frivilously spends someone else’s money, or their own, when bills and children, etc. need to be taken care of. So simply being “poor” or “broke” isn’t the same as someone who is UNMOTIVATED or lazy or irresponsible.
That speaks of CHARACTER.
I lived with a man for 12 years, when I met him he was just beginning to write a book and being paid minimal for the writing of the book. 10 years later still no better financial situation and anything extra went on his credit card which was now maxed out. Books (2) done, no money for marketing, no income at except very low CPP. I wanted to retire, my job was killing me mentally and emotionally and so was he. He looked for work and said he couldn’t find work, this is a very educated man. I helped on his books a lot, every time he asked. When I wanted help or just wanted a clean place to come home to after work I just got excuses. He went bankrupt last year. I moved from my city last year, retired on a small pension, left him. It made me very sad. I told him for years I could not support him and I could not stay at my job. And I did try to figure out a way I could support him but I could not unless I kept working. I think I gave him a very long time to fix his situation. Between me taking on his problems and my job I had the life sucked out of me and I’m still recovering. And I gave him money that I could not afford when I left. We did not have any accounts or anything else together, I made sure of this and single for tax reasons.
No, “Marato”, I think HE is making a mistake marrying YOU.
………………………………………………………………………………….”he comes from a very poor background”. You can’t even hide your disgusting class bigotry, can you?…..”He owes me”…”Gave him a chance”…..As a man who cannot drive, and because of this disability, has been unable to have a relationship for over 35 years, I am in AWE of your callousness. Disgusting.
I think if you top down on him that just makes it worse and when he sees his spouse making comments like you do but he owes me a lot or that he feels bad because of he can’t provide me with these and provide me with that or buy me this gifts or that kind of gives her this kind of life or that kind of life because just like women are saying that structure set up as a woman to be a certain way is that’s how men said that they should be women didn’t decide that well Society has decided men works we buy you things if you’re good women if you’re good wives you get rewarded not just things that people say well he can provide me with those things that I need the Necessities that I need but Necessities that you need are to be loved respected right treated like a woman treated like a queen if that’s what you want but treat like you were Queen you must treat him like the king regardless of what he makes money shouldn’t matter if you’re wanting to love somebody that’s the problem people get focused on the money the bullshit the extra stuff and they don’t care about the person the person is more important you build the foundation before you can build anything else if money is the thing that can bothers you and it keeps you from dating somebody you probably missed out on the best person you could have ever been with because you went for dick and found an asshole because you cared about what he has on the outside instead of what he was on the inside more when Financial stuff depends on how you choose your mate you’ve already screwed over you’re already wrong do you think cavemen picked their mates by who could pick up the biggest Boulder or who had the most money
Azhira,
You sound like an incredible young woman.
May I be socially inappropriate and ask your cultural/ethnic background?
My guy that I just threw out was great and terrific, according to him, prior to us meeting. He “was” he “had” he “can” he “did,” etc but after 7-8 years of zero, no steady income, always morose because he “was” he “had” he “did,” etc and then you finally had the unmitigated gall to complain that I wake him up in the morning (while I’m getting ready for work – I work at 7 so I get up at 5) and why don’t I co-sign for a loan for him, etc and yet I’ve had to chase him down for his portion of the utilities too many times and have had many arguments with him, but don’t I see that if he “did” and if he “was” and if he “could” he would help me, although he has never been in a position to, I finally said, I guess it’s the shelter for you darling because ain’t no man living in my house that doesn’t contribute in many, many ways, including monetarily. You can’t cook, clean, repair, help with bills but you can pitch a bitch? Drop dead is right.
My bf has 5 kids..i have 1. Ive known him for 5 years, but we have been together for 3.When i met him he was living with his mom. We moved together..we struggled together (still struggling, just not as bad). He lost his long time job right as we got together and he didnt seem too interested in getting another job. I basically forced him to get a job at a place where i had just gotten a job at. Soon we both lost the job..however we both started working again..then he was fired some mnths later..he did not work for 8-9 mnths.ALL of the bills fell on me. And he didnt seem phased. It was as if he enjoyed not having to work, but still being able to live comfortably. Anyhow..9 mnths After that period he got another job but he was making $9.00/hr. I started working at another job where i was making enough $$ to pay the full rent..and he paid what he could of the utilities. I sometimes resent him because i feel i do more than 50%. When his kids come over i feed them..if we go places i pay for them, if he and i go on dates i pay for it 95% of the time bc he doesnt make enough. A man’s money or lack thereof was never a big thought of mine bc ive always been independent. Now, i do. I just hate always giving and giving and it not be reciprocated. Im starting to feel used. Am i wrong?..i mean it’s not like he doesn’t have a job..it’s thats he isnt making enough..and doesnt seem to be trying to do better. What should i do?
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Kyla, thanks for writing. I can’t tell you what to do, but it’s clear that your own feelings about the situation could give you the answer. If you need more from him — money or support, whatever — you need to have an honest, loving talk with him and set up some healthy boundaries so you don’t feel used. Maybe give him a time by which he needs to either have a better-paying job or a second job so he can pay more of his share. Let him know that while you love being with his kids, he needs to pay for their food/activities, etc. No one can take advantage of us unless we let him/her; you need to take care of yourself, too. Good luck!
If you LOVE him then you should be eager to contribute more then 50%. If you resent him for the sacrifices you make for him then you dont LOVE him. In which case you are selfish.
Nonsense
So it’s not selfish to sit around and expect your partner to support you…but only if you’re a male and the one supporting you is a female…. However if a female wants to sit on the couch and allow a man to support her she is a fat selfish whore?
I’m sorry but there are people who spent years struggling through school and sleepless nights awake studying; people Who worked their hardest to make sure they had enough to support their children and buy a home one day. People who have spent their time relentlessly working their way to get somewhere…these people have every right to decide not to date a person who wants to spend the day watching tv instead of working. They also have a right to look for someone who is headed down the same path as them…I am not a selfish whore who is incapable of love because I refuse to date someone who is expecting me to financially support them.. I worked very hard to get a good paying job so I could live the lifestyle that I’ve always wanted to have and it is not at all selfish to expect my partner to do the same. Nor does it mean that I am incapable of love.
Those who say “money isn’t everything” have most likely never had to spend countless nights awake worried about how they are going to feed their children or pay their next gas bill.
The only thing that is selfish is sitting around watching someone else struggle to support you and then complaining they don’t LOVE you because they aren’t eager to support you.
I’ve read enough. Hate to say it, but I can’t help but to agree, although I would never use such strong and demeaning words. As a (shadow of a) man, the thought never even occurred to me that being expected to pay for everything was perhaps not right. I considered that part of my “job” as a man in a relationship, even if I had no ability to do so. If the woman can pay for something, cool, but I have always felt, as Harry Truman said, “The buck stops here”, with me, meaning the final responsibility falls to me, the male, and me alone. I know that is old fashioned, and that by no means is set in stone, but I never saw that as a bad thing until I started reading this, (and countless like it) and seeing that the same view is overwhelmingly not shared by women. Like others have stated earlier, I am exceedingly depressed and saddened by this article and many others like it I’ve found because I see now that for someone like me there is virtually no hope. I’ve never been able to break above the 28k yearly mark, and probably never will. To make matters more difficult, I am the sole caretaker of 4 small children (2 of which aren’t even mine) as “mom” decided some years back to go pursue greener and less encumbered pastures, leaving them all with me plus her 40k in student load debt, as I loved and trusted her, and cosigned the loans while married. I never once had fears about doing that back then. I receive no childsupport, (since I’m male, the county doesn’t care to pursue it) and am forced to rely on shameful government handouts to make ends meet, and keep food on the table. I’m resented by my neighbors as “poor white trash” and for “milking the system”. I get random inspections from child protective services constantly because the county philosophy is that foster care is preferable to a poor single “dad”. I work 50+hrs a week at the best job I’m capable of doing, do as many odd jobs for cash as I can find, barely see my kids other than just in time for bedtime, and $0.60 out of every dollar I earn goes to daycare. Everything I am goes to them and for them. I don’t own a single piece of clothing that isn’t left over from highschool 20yrs ago, and even my footwear was bought for me as required work safety equipment. I’m in constant danger of loosing the job every time one of them gets sick and I must take off to be with them cause the school or daycare won’t allow them. No one gives a crap about single dad’s with kids, and employers certainly don’t understand or care. I (we) are getting along, but just by a thread, and it wouldn’t even be possible without shameful county help. What this, and so many articles have made exceeding clear is that there is no hope for me or other men like me. Perhaps I made a mistake in my one and only relationship choice 14 years ago, but it wasn’t some fly by night 6 month thing, we dated for 3 years and we’re married for 8, but that relationship has left me, according to this, pretty hopeless, and deemed utterly worthless. I love my kids, all of them, but if it weren’t for them, I think I’d just wander “hunting” into a woods somewhere, and never come back out. Perhaps the criminals that are slaughtering baby girls when born have the right idea, but the wrong gender…This is what a man today gets from a woman. Men, if you can’t get rich right away, if you’re not born with a silver spoon in your mouth, or are blessed with exceptionally good looks, either have your genitals removed to completely eliminate any desire for a woman, or just eat a bullet. Thanks ladies…
very true, looking for this 50 50 is stupid. I would not imagine a second dumping a woman who is genuine and nice if she was not making enough money. Many women resort to such practice. And this is where do not agree with you. Some women are willing to put more into the finance for a genuine nice guy.
Also, I think that you forget to see/say that many men put more money to keep sexually satisfied. And when the body stats to lose its value, they discard, in the same way as nay woman discard for money. In essence, sex is women’s “love” currency.
So, as much as people like Anna are blind and narrow minded, you are in your own right by thinking men love is more genuine. It is not, it is sex driven very very often. So the issue is more about society as a whole more than a difference between males and females
If a man can’t provide financially, he needs to find purpose and motivation to get earning. Any man who relies on a woman to provide financially, is no man in my eyes. This doesn’t make me shallow, or money hungry. Just calling it like it is. It’s laziness, disrespect and no self respecting woman should disrespect herself by having to keep paying and taking care of a man 50% or more. Men still make more every dollar than women which is absolutely ridiculous this day and age. If a man cannot support himself, his children, woman, he needs to get grinding and bust his ass. That’s what men do. That’s what masculine is all about, baby. How can a man feel ‘manly’ when he can’t provide. Stop jerking off with your life, and get serious about earning.
People have debt. What kind of debt though? If a man is careless with his money, don’t enable him by contributing more than you feel womanly comfortable. Get some boundaries, ladies, if we can earn and kick ass, they can too. No excuses. Love is wonderful, laziness and having to step up and be the ‘man’ financially, isn’t. And men who call women insensitive and “gold diggers” are just justifying their lack of determination in working hard, and educating themselves in earning a better job/income. We conveniently forget that good women should be treated well. We raise children, we educate ourselves, we take care of people in our lives because that’s just our ‘nurturing’ nature. So, why should we be expected to do ‘it all’? Find a good man whose willing to get his hands dirty and provide and be confident in doing so. End of.
Ryan, you remind me so much of my ex. My ex, like you was a single dad and barely made enough to survive. When we first met he was embarrassed to have me over to his home. His home was completely wreck. Piles of mail wasn’t opened. There were no groceries in his fridge. I bought necessity items for his children. I promised myself that as long as I was in the picture, his kids would not see an empty fridge. I helped my ex get a new job where he could make more money. I continued to love him, all of him. But then one day, he decided that he wasn’t worthy of my love. I was ‘too good’ for him. He didn’t deserve me. So he went back to the pond behind my back and decided to meet a poor woman with a poor background like him. He left me, Ryan. I was devastated by this. When he told me I was the love of his life, I believed him. If I could go back in time, I would tell a guy like you Ryan, to read books. Read as many books as you can get your hands on. Business books. Books that will teach you things that you don’t know. You don’t need college to get an education. You clearly have time to surf the web so read books instead. Get your knowledge on. That is how you will really change your situation and attract love to your life because the reality is, even if your dream woman walked into your life right now, your own beliefs of being unworthy would get in the way and your dream woman doesn’t deserve that. I didn’t deserve it.
Brianne : If women insist to take over men’s role to be the breadwinner, don’t be resentful if men become homemakers.
D : feminist detected
Elizabeth : that’s because most women who did the same thing like you did are only fantasizing about changing a man’s life but in the end, it turns into disappointment.
I really want to know this guys name, because you must have kicked him out and now he is living with me URGH….to be with a broke guy is ok, to be with a broke guy that has NO hustle is NOT!
A guy with hustle (legal) will always figure out a way to support himself, his woman, his children ect. He will work several low paying jobs, he will learn a trade, he will continue to do what he has to do to not be a burden to you even if he can not fully support you!!!
You hit the nail on the head with this one!
Let’s hope he is a loser…because expecting a winner to work for less than they are worth is morally wrong. Oh, wait. It seems all you complainers about “laziness” don’t seem to understand what it means to be Warren Buffet. How hard did that guy work at creating value with his own hands? How much less of a person are you compared to him? Are you really only 1,500,000th the person he is?
I’d like to be a research scientist..but they pay truck drivers better. Should I be a truck driver instead? ….Or should our social contracts represent the actual distribution of human qualities relative to the entire population?
I could easily play the traditional mother’s role as a man..but she won’t have sex with me as a consequence. It is her. All I need is booty to make it go.
Feminist detected
I agree with Janet, I’ll act a fool, been with mine 3years he can’t keep a job either, I already see how he do with my car ain’t no way in hell I’m moving n with him sitting down relating an I been busting my ass. I don’t even no how much longer I can put up with it because I don’t know if its normal for a man to be down that long
I’ve read this article and I agree and disagree with it. I am a working female that’s makes “okay” money. I have everything I need and want. I am a women who “broke up with a broke man”. But the reasoning behind breaking up with him was not due to money. I could of supported him “John” with just my earnings. But I was tired of paying for every date, all the gas, all of the “extra stuff”. I would of gave him all the money I had to give if he was appreciated. Instead I dated a man who was selfish. He would come and treat me like a princess to get a little cash In his pocket so he could run off and spend it to take other girls out. This man was a handy man and would make a little cash once a month. When he did have a bit of money he never took me on a date or showed me he appricated me. So yes a women can date and support a man who is unemployed but it’s never worth the while or the time when he is going to be selfish and not try to repay the favors. I never asked him for money when he had it but sometimes I kinda expected for him buy a single flower for me or something. Heck even a thank you note would of worked.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Thanks for responding, Sjed. What I’m hearing from you is that you didn’t mind supporting “John” as long as he was appreciative, and he wasn’t. So when the two of you got together, was there any talk of expectations, other ways to be supportive if not financially, etc.? It’s one thing to support someone, it’s another to be taken advantage of (like “running off and spend it to take other girls out.”) But that has nothing to do with dating a broke man; that is more about someone’s character. Sorry that was your experence.
Damn. Men don’t give a damn if he has to provide for a woman. It’s been this way since the dawn of time and that never stopped those women from cheating on him. NOW that we’re so progressive, now that women have actually MORE rights than men do, women can’t find enough love to support their husbands?? I’m beginning to see why the patriarchy was so important for human survival for so long.
I was married to a man who was very wealthy. I stayed home and went to school while taking care of our kids. But he was a cruel man. He insulted me, dominated me, spit on me, and would hurt me. I divorced him and have never been so happy, even though I raise two kids on a small social services salary.
If I ever marry again, I’ll look most for someone who will love me and treat me well. Not with money, but with his loyalty and kindness to me. I don’t expect a rich man, but I do want a guy with a solid work ethic. He could be working at McDonald’s, but he is bringing home something. Everyone should decide what’s most important to them. If you can’t abide a man or woman who does not have the same drive for success as you, by all means let them go. But the grass is not always greener on the nicely manicured lawn!
A big fat AAAAAAAAAAMEN! You’re on it and I believe as you do. We know players but if you’re constantly looking for the game in a person…you’re possibly missing out on the heart of the true person. Just fyi.
I was with someone from a rich family for 16 yrs. Although his family has a lot of money, and we benefited from it with extravagant gifts, trips, an weekends at their country house, my “partner” could never seem to hold down a job for very long, and was also abusive. Now I am in a legal battle with his family just to have 50% of the sale of our joint property, which I’ve paid into with steady work, for 10 yrs. I’m now dating someone who doesn’t have much, but he has my trust. Ultimately, it is not about rich or poor … its about honesty, and respect.
Why not be with a good hearted man who earns a good living? What a concept.
We cant have it all sweetie..and most of these poor people have a bright future ahead trust me…just have a little patience
Who says you “can’t have it all?” That’s a MYTH. Set your sights higher.
Barb : Nobody can have it all. If you believe about that, you are delusional.
John I am a professional women with 2 children and not receiving any regular child support. I have always made more than anyone I dated. Its not the amount of money you make. Its what you’re doing with it. Just because I have a higher income doesn’t mean you shouldn’t contribute. I expect my boyfriend to contribute proportionately. If my boyfriend was unemployed (temporarily hopefully) then he needs to pick up the slack at home. Clothes washed, house decent, dinner made and pick up the kids. Fair is fair. I have patience but when it wears thin thats not good. I love my boyfriend dearly he is a wonderful person. I am just making it with my 2 children alone. Life isn’t perfect and neither is man. But it amazes me how women (broke or not) can make it alone somehow. But some men won’t put forth the hustle/effort.
Jon please don’t think that way.. Honestly money is the root of all evil.. Some women/men are all about materialistic things but some are not.. As myself I don’t look for how much money someone has or makes when getting to know them.. I have found myself dating guys who are only out for money and when it’s gone so are they.. I would much rather live in a cars board box and he happy than try to keep up with the high class and only live for money.. Don’t short hand yourself like that.. No matter how much u make or who u might date does it’s about being happy and if she is unhappy all because u might not fit her needs then tell her to go find someone else.. Don’t lower your standards for someone who doesn’t appreciate and love you for you.. please smile and know God has that special Lady out there for u.
Connie,
Money is NOT the root of all Evil….
The LOVE of money is the root of all Evil.
That is one of the most misquoted and misunderstood Scriptures….ever.
yes but today, do not tell me that one with lots does not love it.
People who say that can bullshit themselves in thinking they do not love money but they can’t bullshit me.
And while here, this is what many (mega) churches play on. Do make money but do not love it, so give give give, good business model….
And lastly, one does not become good but giving 90 million when one has made 500 million. I reach an age where I can say with almost certainty that people with large income have at some point been lying, cheating or else. And that makes them bad. And whet often those people do it give some of this money to “clean themselves” but things do not work that way. I can quote mother Theresa who eloquently said, give till it hurts. And obviously if one gives 90, or even 450 out of 500 million, sorry but I am laughing scenically. I give an extreme example but this happens at lower scale too. Seen with my own eyes, I have seen “generous Christians” being rather than dishonest in research, just to get the research grants
Wow. good catch! The “love” of money is evil?.. yah right, just so the church can feel better about taking mine?. hahaha. No thank you. People should really start ditching the bible and most religion for common sense… It would be an incredible world. haha. Cheers! thanks for this little ray of sunshine today 😀
I’ll be honest with you, I pray that you will live a healthy and wealthy life. You are truly Christ-like.
I think the lack of confidence, whinginess by saying you care for elderly and wish you were dead is a big enough problem in itself. Work on your confidence and the income will matter less. I earn more than my previous partners and If I am the main provider financially then It would be nice if the man balances it out by being romantic and attentive in the relationship, then income is not so much of an issue.If the man refuses to work or only works part time then the woman may feel like she puts in more effort. Confidence is very important and anyone wishing their life to be over may have some more serious issues than just a low income. Perhaps see a psychologist so you can discuss this issue and from experience I found speaking to a professional highly beneficial. Good luck with everything.
Look I don’t want to insult any one here but this is the truth:
ARE YOU LADIES BRAIN DAMAGED ?! On one hand you talk about a guy like he is a bag of money and he has to support you no matter what, like it’s his job. But on the other hand if he isn’t doing as good as you FINANCIALLY he is lower then filth. REALLY ?! You are all HYPOCRITES ! You should be thankful you found some one who is appreciating you especially in this world. What about all that equality we are all on about ? Or is it equality only when it suits us ?
Look at your self’s before you judge others !
Thank you very much for speaking the truth
Hey, no man…. The important thing is to be trying to contribute, however that works. If one person has a better income, say it’s me, I’ll happily help out. But I’m a person who just had my rent raised 300 dollars, or 40 percent. I got a 2.5 percent raise from the brass this year, same as everyone else in the same boat. I really need to be able to, if I’m part of a couple, have some help paying the rent and sharing space. It’s actually a matter of survival. I just literally can’t afford to support anyone else at a basic survival level. If I could, I would. But I am considered “very low income” in So Cal, where I live. Right now, I can’t afford to pick up more than half the tab…as I can barely foot all of it just for myself. My other option on the rent issue, is to move in and room with a perfect stranger. As a person who’s been forced out of an apartment more than once because of a stalker…the prospect of trusting someone I don’t know, to LIVE with, is literally terrifying. These are some of the issues. You sound like a lovely person if you care for the elderly. I’m sure someone will see your value.
That’s women for you.
John,
No one every said you’re better off dead. Get off your butt and get and education, so you may write/spell more clearly and potentially earn a better living. I worked full time and when to school full time simultaneously to finish my degree. Plenty of financial aid programs out there.
You might want to “when” yourself back to school in order to learn how to “write/spell” yourself.
As a person with a bachelors, two masters, and my JD, I have more education (and student loans) than most. I will be the first to admit I can’t spell or write, many fields of formal education have little to do with either.
I have never in my life attempted to insult someone for being less educated than myself, however I am pretty sure if I was trying, I would spell stuff right myself.
If that the way it suppose to be that female reley on a man pocket. If so a man should feel as a woman. I stay with a woman who work and spend her money on what she want going continuely in debt and expect for me to pay het bills, while I pay all bills in, the house. And if I decided that I want to have me some fun with my money she feel im wrong. She barely clean, wash, cook. Yet still she feel im a no good man. It confuse me when a woman think a man should do everything and she enjoys herself with hers. Why a man want with a woman who feel it’s right. And too a man should look at het Babbage
*HUGE sigh of relief….and here I was, thinking maybe it was just me, that I was being too picky, that my standards were perhaps too high. I’m soooo glad I’m not alone!!!
I’m 32, single, no kids and never been married (yet 😉 ) and I just purchased my first home in February. The guy I’ve been seeing for just over a month is younger, 26, has a car, has an apt. We met online, of course. He told me he was a manager at a fast food restaurant. So I thought, ok he’s a MANAGER, has to make at least as much as I do, right? Nope.
He messaged me tonight and said he wanted to come see my but didn’t have the gas………
I knew I should have run for the hills when I had to pay the bill on our first date, but I wanted to give the guy a chance; and no, he’s not doing anything to try to improve his situation. It is very discouraging to a nice young lady such as myself that is seeking marriage and family but can’t seem to find any financially responsible and financially independent men out there. I would have to agree with the article above and say that is is a very important factor to me..I mean, I can manage my money, my man should be able to manage his as well.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Thanks for commenting Ms. Kat. It isn’t that you’re too picky or that your guy is irresponsible. To make a relationship work, the couple needs to have the some financial values. If you don’t have that, the relationship will not work even if he’s a millionaire. Wishing you the best.
For a relationship to work, in the eyes of a greedy and selfish woman, the MAN must contribute more then the greedy and selfish woman. Because she is greedy selfish and she wont settle for anything less. Such is the nature of selfishness and greed. If you are a man dont bother looking for love from a woman they just want your money even if they have their own. You are better off swearing off women and saving money. Then if you really get desperate for pussy, you can rent them by the hour. Its cheaper and they will love you just as much as a wife or girlfriend without the drama and emotional baggage. Sure call girls arent baggage free, but they have to carry that baggage for themselves. So yea dating is not worth it at all. Gfs and wives are just live in hookers.
Clearly written by a man that has no respect for kthers, feels lonely but convinces himself he needs nobody and is to good for any woman. If you had a kind personality then you would see that there are many women that are kind hearted out there and are not just live in hookers. Grow up!
He is absolutely right. It’s called female nature. I have dated many women I thought they were loving and nurturing creatures but after dating and being in many realsionships they were all the same. Men as a collective have seen your ways just like reading here that men are only an arm for you. If you can withdraw anymore it’s off to the next atm. Now we act like you and stop loving women and then you consoling where all the good men have gone. It’s feminism that killed everything. There is nothing to keep women’s behavior in check anymore so now you all showed is your true nature and now we aren’t going to marry you leeches anymore. Look at the marriage rates plumit and birth rates. MGTOW is growing extremely fast. We use logic to get to that conclusion. I still have sex with women but won’t ever het into a relationship with them again.
Tash : you must be a feminist
Righteous? hmm I think your name is a big misnomer. Please stay with the hookers. Us REAL working women don’t have time for someone as selfish as yourself. I have supported myself and my children for the last 10 years. I own a 4 bedroom house, a boat, a camper and I do this on my own. However, the last couple of men I have dated seriously took me for granted. The last boyfriend lived with me rent free for the last year. The first 4 months, I agreed to it because I knew he was just getting back to work. He then agreed to pay $500/ month for rent. This included EVERYTHING from food to the utilities. He paid me one time. He also agreed to go half on that camper. Nothing, not one dime. So tell me again how all women are just greedy and selfish? Some men are too. Getting him to help out with any of the bills was like pulling teeth. I don’t have the energy for it. I’m too busy working. So he is out the door and I am back to being single again. Cause this isn’t fair, it’s not love and us REAL working women need a soft place to land too. Guys like you who sit and bitch and wine about how they took all your money and you would rather be with a hooker are lame. Educated women don’t want anything to do with you, which is why you are now paying for hookers…… Oh, and BTW….I’m cute too.
It’s funny and ironic, when women take advantage of men, it’s okbut if men do the same thing, women mad.
RUN, GIRL, RUN!!!
Why should a man be in a relationship period?
I’m 66 and lost all my money to Madoff….every cent…I thought about seeking a partner on a web site. It was then that I realized that I have nothing to offer anyone in a relationship
So what would my profile heading say?
Once had millions…not a penny now..
It’s enough to make someone extremely angry…
I have no earning power….I received my SS and a small pension I received from a volunteer fire dept when I lived in Westchester NY
Remember that sone
I’m Mr Lonely…
Sorry, don’t believe you. You were worth millions, but didn’t have the brains to stick money in securities or at the very least a 401K for retirement?
This is so true! I’m 31 years old and I’m currently dating a 32y old man who is unemployed, uneducated, has no car, and lives at home with his mommy. When we met he told me he is a business man. Little did I know he was in the business of being broke all the time.
Soon after we started dating the requests for loans, electronic fund transfers, “help me pay this bill because I currently don’t have access to the internet” started coming. He always promises he will pay me back but when I remind him he says “the only thing I owe you a wedding ring, a house and some babies”. Only the heavens know how he plans on getting me all of that.
So every time I see him he is with a friend I call him “The Transporter”. So I end up carrying the bill for all 3 of us. To make matters worse, The Transporter sometimes brings his girlfriend with the expectation that I will cover everyone’s bill. I have considered walking out and leaving them with the bill. But then I think what if they get arrested and get bad record which would make it even harder to find a job.
I know that he has not been as privileged as I have been and maybe I’m overly sensitive about that and the fact that they are from the ghetto so maybe they can use some help coming up. I don’t want to come across as being snobbish so I tend to overlook many things. I even give him my bank card and my pin so he can pay if we are together just to try save him some respect as a man. But I have realized that if I don’t ask for my bank card back he “forgets” to give it to me and while he has it, he uses it without asking for my permission.
He is a great guy with a wonderful personality but I just don’t want to live off food stamps and I don’t want to have to downgrade my lifestyle to accommodate his. I do want to help him achieve more in life but I don’t know how much is too much. I don’t mind that his idea of travel is going to the corner shop or that fun for him means sitting in the street corner with a bunch of friends who cannot even tell you what the fiscus or GDP are. But I cannot shake this suspicion that he is comfortable with the idea of being “a kept man”. He claims he is not but his actions tell me he is comfortable being taken care of by a woman (be it his momma or me). I just don’t see how I will ever be able to respect him as a man if he cannot take care of his own basic needs.
To make matters worse, he has a kid from a previous relationship. I take responsibility for allowing things to get to where they are. He has no interest in looking for a job and even if he did he would probably not earn much. So my choice is either to pay for his education, ask my dad to help him to actually start a real business or to leave. I choose the latter (as of this moment that is). I just hope people don’t call me a snob. I just think I’m in way over my head! I need HELP!
Sam, plz leave him while you still have a shred of dignity left. You can’t be ambitious for a man. If he doesn’t want a better life for himself on his own, you helping him isn’t going to change anything. RUN!
I want to be honest with you and tell you that this man is a “USER”. Love is all about “give and take”, not “give and give” or “take and take”. It is not a healthy relationship at all and if he really loves you, he will at least be sensitive with your needs. You are a very empowered woman and you deserve a man who will love you right because you trully deserve it believe me. I think you are a decent woman so don’t allow him to bring you down because in the end you might not notice but little by little you will loose all your self respect because you have already given everything about you that you did not save something for yourself. I will pray for you and hope that you find the courage to decide that you deserve nothing but the best because God loves you.
You are getting played.
Hi,
Some of my friends have dated similarly unemployed men and to tell the truth – the love the drama. They may complain, but they never leave their men because it gives the drama in life and something to talk about. Like you, they feel ‘responsible’. It’s not something I can get my head around, why women are so determined to stay in relationships with issues.
You’ve written this 3 months ago and I doubt that you have left him, but I hope that things improve.
Girl, I agree, PLEASE LEAVE! It will not get any better, it will get worse. AND, when you do leave, you might feel lonely or alone for a little while, but after a SHORT time you will be so glad you left him. I have been where you are now. I am so happy now. I own my own home, brand new car, credit card, all the stuff I need and want. But, I refuse to have a man who will take advantage of me financially, period. You will look back and realize after leaving him, you will feel so much better. I promise you!
You must leave. You’re already filled w resentment for this man. It’ll just get worse. Good luck
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Sam, it’s OK to love someone but you are not responsible for fixing that person’s problems. You can help him find solutions — job referrals, grants, social services, etc. — and emotionally support him in that journey, but you are free to draw the boundaries — especially when it comes to money. Being a “kept” man or woman is OK if you both agree to that because you both are getting out of it what you need. That doesn’t sound like the situation here, sorry. And I understand how a great person with a great personality can mismanage money (been there, done that); again, you can’t solve that problem for him but you can support whatever efforts he makes toward making it better. If you let him know that and cut off the money supply, his true personality will be apparent. He may still be a “great guy” or he may not. Stay strong, good luck, and please let me know how it goes.
Nice guy, great guy, whatever guy doesn’t mean he’s the guy for you. The posts are correct, you like drama and you’re being played. You give him money. Shit, I wouldn’t work either if someone “gave” me everything I need. You’re his mother and you’re in an incestuous relationship. Think about that.
DAMN. You don’t know how much this resonates with me. Your observation about the relationship being “incestuous” is very profound. I too, have the same feelings about my last relationship. We still remain best friends today, but he really wants to get back together. And I don’t.
There were times where I gave him money during our relationship (some was a a loan, some just little stuff for gas or food because I felt so bad for him). He also craved affection. He constantly wanted his back rubbed (I didn’t mind) and when he had his kids over, he wanted me to lay up under him. We would argue about that often; I told him it wasn’t right for me to be over there because I was interfering with their bonding time but his excuse was:”They are older children, they’re ok, they do their own thing.” May I mention that he doesn’t/didn’t have his own place (he does pay bills/rent there but it sucks bc we had no privacy)? At one point, he even had the nerve to say that he DESERVED fulfilling sex.
For a long time, I ignored my own feelings and made myself believe that many of the things he said were gospel. One day I finally woke up. Here I am giving a grown ass man pocket change, rubbin’ his back like a baby, having sex with him….he still lives at home (38 y/o and I’m 33)…he has far too many obligations to do anything thoughtful for me (besides house dates, the occasional fast food, dates at a chain restaurant or plying me with alcoholic beverages that I demanded to get me through those many days and nights of staying over at his full house). In a way, I feel like I’m being harsh. Yes he does work and have a car…..but the relationship had been this way for nearly 14 yrs. Don’t get me wrong, I share the blame also for allowing this behavior for so long. This speaks volumes about my own self-esteem.
This morning I had an epiphany on why I am no longer sexually attracted to him. It’s because I felt like I was f***ing a child. There is so much to this story, but I don’t want to bore anyone to tears. GAHHHH…..
I’ve been dealing with this 3 years. He is 48, I’m 46. He’s living with me free…mows lawn and keeps his areas clean thinks contributing. It’s getting so old. He wants sex constant and I’m getting less less attracted. He drives a car costing 1000 month! But can’t pay me. Huge loan..lost his house. He blames market mortgage industry crash and his divorce. Meanwhile I’m single mom two boys. He’s great in many ways but this money thing ugh! This is also the short story..he finally has decent job but will be forever before can pay me…or rent.
I have always (sometimes reluctantly) worked, and bring in average wages. Anthough I do not live for money, I understand that it is a necessity to have some money, just to live… or else you are living of charity essentially. Now I never previously cared if a partner of mine had money or not, until now, since I have been dating someone for 3 months, who has no money. This has put a tremendous pressure and imbalance on our relationship, as in 3 months, he hasn’t even taken me on a date.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Tara, thanks for writing. I have always been the same way — don’t care about money. It still isn’t a priority but it helps.
That said, a date can be free — there are free days at museums, gallery openings, street festivals, open mike nights at nightclubs, etc. — or close to free, like making you dinner (nothing fancy, but it’s the thought), renting a movie and massaging your feet, playing guitar and singing for you (if he can), etc. I understand that men often equate their self-worth with their actual worth, and if he’s been looking for work and can’t find it, he may be depressed; we all would be! Still, kind acts are free; I hope he gets with the program!
Very good answer!! 🙂
Hey guys pls help I’m dating a guy he is unemployed apparently left the job Bcs they pay him small money but now he is too lazy to go and look for another job I love him but I dought he will leave me when he gets a job Cs he is childish I always tell him about it and he is not happy he gets angry and he is soo negative to everything he just eat and sleep everyday whole i go to wrk.evrn if i direct him to go alone he just say i dont knw the place and expect me to understand and othrr thing he is younger than me with 5 yrs a want to ask for advise how to see if a person really loves u even if he doesnt support u financially or just to get up and look for something better to make future better .
My bf has 5 kids..i have 1. Ive known him for 5 years, but we have been together for 3.When i met him he was living with his mom. We moved together..we struggled together (still struggling, just not as bad). He lost his long time job right as we got together and he didnt seem too interested in getting another job. I basically forced him to get a job at a place where i had just gotten a job at. Soon we both lost the job..however we both started working again..then he was fired some mnths later..he did not work for 8-9 mnths.ALL of the bills fell on me. And he didnt seem phased. It was as if he enjoyed not having to work, but still being able to live comfortably. Anyhow..9 mnths After that period he got another job but he was making $9.00/hr. I started working at another job where i was making enough $$ to pay the full rent..and he paid what he could of the utilities. I sometimes resent him because i feel i do more than 50%. When his kids come over i feed them..if we go places i pay for them, if he and i go on dates i pay for it 95% of the time bc he doesnt make enough. A man’s money or lack thereof was never a big thought of mine bc ive always been independent. Now, i do. I just hate always giving and giving and it not be reciprocated. Im starting to feel used. Am i wrong?..i mean it’s not like he doesn’t have a job..it’s thats he isnt making enough..and doesnt seem to be trying to do better. What should i do?
Interesting whats written, i have been dating this guy for abit more than a month, he said he is a freelancer designer and director infact he is but he is not doing great business as such market is tight at our place. I am 24 with degree and good stable earning he is 26 have an art certificate. I paid for most dinners and food plans we have a plan to go out of the country for new year and i think its on me :(. He knows the problem and looking for a job but this is tiering
I would like some input as to how I can turn down someone, without seeming like a horrible person. I met someone online, we had a lot in common and messages back and forth were funny, full of great conversation, really good stuff. So we agree to meet for coffee, and he then tells me that he can’t buy my coffee as well as his own as he is broke. He is retired from what seems to be a good career- no, I didn’t ask him why he doesn’t have a bean. He lives in a rooming house with 4 other people and they share a landline phone. I had made it clear in my profile that I wanted to meet someone with whom I could purchase a home so that I can run my home-based business efficiently (divorce put paid to that, but I could go half on a suitable place).
He thinks we have what it takes to get along romantically, says he still wants to meet and that I will change my mind. I can’t imagine getting into a relationship with someone who tells me in advance that he can’t buy a $2 cup of coffee.
However, because I was raised to be polite and not ignore people, I would like to know how to turn him down without coming across like an awful person. Any ideas?
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Tina, thanks for commenting. I hear you say “He thinks we have what it takes to get along romantically” while also admitting “I can’t imagine getting into a relationship with someone who tells me in advance that he can’t buy a $2 cup of coffee.” The two can coexist. Yes, you can agree that there may be many things you share in common (although he is saying that; are you?), but that isn’t necessarily enough. It isn’t wrong for you to want to be with someone who’s a bit more financially stable or an equal partner. If you’re attracted to him and you think there’s enough “there” there, it’s certainly OK to ask him what his plans are to get on more stable financial footing especially if you are not in a situation to support someone (or choose not to). You can say you’d like to split things equally as you date to see if you’re truly good romantic partners (and there are many inexpensive/free ways to be together). But if he balks at that, I would certainly question why. And that is not being impolite. Good luck!
Hi I been living with. Guy for 3years he has not being working since , he drive my car I pay for his medical insurance food and cell phone allowance and I help him with pocket money he says if I love him I can give him loan or open a business for him, he says he is tired of watching me me being rich and eating my money, is it my resposibility to help him with opening. Business
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Linda, it isn’t your “responsibility” to pay for any other person unless you birthed/adopted him or her, or you vowed that in a marriage (and even then it’s not a given, given certain circumstances). The bigger question is, do you want to? Are you getting what you need/want in return? Is there a plan in place to become more equal partners (if you want that)? Are you having those kinds of conversations — and can you have them without conflict? Love doesn’t come with demands, ie. that someone has to “loan” a loved one money. It isn’t your problem that he’s “tired” of watching you “eat your money” (at the same time, is he trying to tell you that you could be more financially responsible?). If you loan him money for a business, what is his plan to pay you back (and is it a viable business, and is he a good businessman)? There’s a lot the two of you will need to discuss and get in writing; how he responds to that may tell you all you need to know. Good luck!
I’m 41 years old, and last year i got a disillusionment from someone who was extremely abusive and cruel to me that i was in a relationship with for thirteen years, before that i was not very wise in matters of dating, but that was my first relationship since high school. As of now, sadly I am unable to work as an old injury i sustained when i was in school got worse, and now i am on disability, pay my bills, have my own place, but as it said in the article, i get zero replies as i am looking for a long term relationship since i would rather not spend the rest of my life on my own. I have learned from learning from my mother’s morals and living around a liberal city that it is not what is on the outside like looks, money, or other material things that make a person desirable, it is what is on the inside, as that reflects on the outside. If you see someone who is greedy, then it reflects in someone who wants someone who will look for someone who has a lot of money. I know that is contrary to a lot of what i have been seeing, but i have been looking around so much, and it is all i have been seeing from so many posts on many different sites, greed, not security or stability. If someone wants to be stable, i applaud them for being honestly stable, but to turn away and scoff at people because others thing they are a burden? it depends on the person, not the class itself, and it is so sad to see people hurt from this attitude. Do not get me wrong, just because i have not found anyone i am not calling foul and unfair to single myself out, but when it is more than just myself, then it is worth calling foul.
My question is, is it wrong to date someone who is disabled? Even though he does not want to be a financial burden, but he does not get a lot of money, because going by the standards i am seeing, that basically is a coin toss between “No, your a worthless bum regardless of who you are as your a penniless deadbeat.” and “Yes, i would be more than happy because dating is a partnership regardless of your income or problems.” Because the more articles i read on this, i see more of the former than the later, which is what i am personally, and it makes me feel sad we have gone this way.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Jeff, there is nothing “wrong” (or, for that matter, “right”) about dating someone disabled; there are many people who happily couple or marry someone who is disabled, whether physically or mentally. There are even dating websites geared toward disabled people. I don’t think you’d want to be with someone who thought it was “wrong,” anyway. Please don’t get disillusioned. At the same time, it might be beneficial if you geared your dating efforts at women for whom a disability wouldn’t be an issue. Good luck!
My husband was “disabled.” I never thought of him that way. I saw all the things he could do. He was disabled in an accident as a child. He worked for many years until he couldn`t any more. I continued to work and didn`t resent him. He took me to Wendy`s when he got his check. He said he wished he could take me some place better. I told him I`d rather be there with him than any where else with someone else. I loved him completely.
Catch and release; Best dating advise for any man; broke or rich.
Been there, done that. Even that sucks. Nothing but sea robins and spidercrabs in that murky water. I dont even cast my line anymore. But, That doesnt seem stop them from trying to jump into my boat. Sure I’m a good looking guy but, For some reason the less interested in women I become the more attractive I seem to be to them. So I end up in alot of situations where women make their availabilty known in an effort to induce me into ask them out. But I am a MGHOW(if you dont know what that is google it) so asking a woman out is out of the question and rejecting women does indeed give me a thrill. So, When I catch women eyeballing me, I politely initiate a conversation with some mundane question. She’ll get excited and answer my question, but before she can ask me a question (which would be her way of expressing interest)I quickly say “Thank you”, then I turn around and swiftly walk away and never look back. It may not seem like much but to a woman her self esteem is shattered. I consider that my good deed for each day. If I can make a different woman cry everyday just by saying “thank you” I’d finally feel like I’d really given back to my community. Snubbing these self entitled, self absorbed, narcissitic sociopaths is the highlight of my day and I recomend that every attractive man in this country indulge in this practice as often as possible. Its the least these worthless whores deserve. Do it for the community, do it because its right and do it because its fun. It doesnt matter why you do it as long as you do it. Thank you.
Sounds like some woman out there scorned you…the very idea that you think countless women are unable to go about their lives happily because you haven’t asked them out is laughable…for every one good looking guy out there, there’s a million others who are not only good looking but who most likely aren’t as shallow as you either.
At this point I’m not sure if I should feel bad for everyone who has to be around you or if I should feel sorry for you because you’re obviously so miserable you seek joy out of trying to bring others down with you.
Also I’m feeling a little bad for myself at this point, for wasting 5 minutes of my life (which I’ll never get back by the way) replying to your idiotic, masochistic post.
P.S. Get over yourself, you’re probably not as great as you think you are.
Thanks for the demonstration of what probably a number of people in your movement think about women.
Sounding like a narcissist serial killer. You are the TRUE meaning of a loser and I would LOVE to laugh in your face! Baaaahahaha
This is why, at 35, I still don’t date. I’m under-employed, putting what little money I have from part-time work into rent, bills, and occasional grad-school tuition. Sadly, I’ve spent the past twelve years as basically a full-time caregiver for my elderly father (and my mother before she passed away), so I had to turn down a doctoral acceptance and lost out on the prime of my career’s growth years. It’s been made well-aware to me how unattractive all this is to women, so I’ll just remain broke, lonely, and depressed. The irony is that – especially with all the domestic skills I’ve been practicing basically daily over the past decade – I’d accept being the SAHD in a marriage with a career woman (I trained as a historian; we’re paid in pittances anyway) in a heartbeat!
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Thanks for writing, Brian. I’m really sorry that you are struggling after doing what was a wonderful and necessary thing to do, caretake your parents. I can understand that you might be depressed by your romantic prospects; that said, that might be working against you in finding a partner. There are some women who would want to be married to a SAHD and others who would be open to flexible arrangements; those are the women you need to find. To do that, you might need to reframe your story and attitude, and embrace the great skills and nurturing personality you have. That is very attractive to many women. Please don’t give up hope!
Hi Brian,
We’ve spent the last twelve years on the same path in the same order, although I had to move my father out a couple of years ago. He died a year ago and I was injured six months ago. Also, my “lost decade” was my 50s. I had just finished grad school, potential employers don’t understand why I put my parents first.
Brian, I’m sure what i’m going to say isn’t new, but perhaps hearing it from a similar situation will help. First, please try to take as much care of yourself physically and intellectually as you can squeeze in. I know how hard it is to squeeze seconds. If history is hard to face, maybe something in related fields or something brand new. Walks and public staircases and books about stretching and yoga from your library and PBS and NPR are free.
You’re probably out of social practice. Practice being friendly with everybody – men, kids, dogs, as well as women until it feels normal again. People in customer service are a good start, they’re hired for their people skills. When you get in a better place it’ll be easier to find a good woman.
Part of it is that you’re stretched so thin that you probably haven’t got enough time to increase the number of women you’re meeting. You might expand to somebody a little older or financially secure. Find the right one and she won’t care about your money, especially in these circumstances, because she won’t be looking solely for someone to bankroll her. You’ve already proved an enormous amount your character. Most women I know value character more than anything. Those same women are looking for brains and interest in the world.
Hope this helps and doesn’t feel like preaching. good luck Brian.
If he loves you he will get a job of some sort and be a man who will contribute. Cut off the money and see if he still wants to be with you……or if he looks fora vetted “mommy”. I wouldnt really care if he made less than me. Motivation and getting out there and trying to help pay bills or get you a cheap christmas present that he bought with what he had….things like that matter. Anyone can sit and cry and be a taker. Most men want to contribute.
Could not have put it more perfectly. I am a female making above average wages. My boyfriend of 3.5 years that I live with makes less than half what I do. The amount of money that he makes doesn’t bother me, it’s his lack of ambition to want to do better. We were afforded the same opportunities but I have moved up in pay drastically in a few short years, mostly because I have worked my ass off and demanded more. He seems to be perfectly content making just enough to get by and it’s that lack of drive and desire to improve his standings that bothers me. I have worked very hard to put myself in a position to spend money as I please and he makes comments about my spending habits that bother me. We have recently started talking marriage and are nowhere on the same page for the price of the ring. It’s the only thing that I am expecting him to pay for. I am going to be paying for the entire wedding, rehearsal dinner, honeymoon, wedding rings… EVERYTHING ELSE! I am having to settle for a ring that is less than I want because he can’t get his shit together and get a real job. Yes, he is a pretty great guy, for the most part. But to sit here and say that his lack of income doesn’t bother me, would be a lie. To clarify, I’m not asking him to make more than me or even as much as me. I’m ok being a woman who makes more than her man. I just want to see some kind of determination to better himself in any way, which I have not. He has actually recently started talking about how he doesn’t like his current job and I got excited thinking he was finally going to try. Then he started applying to jobs where he actually makes LESS! I am getting so frustrated and I find it so difficult to talk to him in a way that isn’t just attacking him but money is security for me and it is an important thing. Not the most important but it is definitely important.
I was in the same situation but I was married to my husband for 17 years. We got together after High School and had 2 kids. It’s not that he earned little that bothered me, it’s that he lacked ambition to do better. I earned double what he did and I too earned my wages in a short time frame (in 4 years) by working my ass off and demanding more. He kept getting more and more into debt too.
We are separated now and the way he still treats me after our break up proves to me that I made the right decision to leave.
Well ladies, it works both ways. What do you bring to the table besides sex? Apparently some women think just having a vagina is enough. To date me you must have AT LEAST a 4 year degree, preferably a graduate degree, and be well traveled, like me. You must have a steady job with a good attendance record. You must also not have any kids as I don’t really feel like raising another man’s offspring. Single motherhood, in most cases, is a sign of irresponsibility and making bad choices. I see personal ads online with huge lists of requirements then see a morbidly obese, tatooed single mom making the demands. Of course us men must appreciate you as you are, jellyrolls of fat included. We are supposed to be so flexible and understanding while most of you accept nothing less than perfection from a man. Ah, the double standards of feminism!
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
“Single motherhood, in most cases, is a sign of irresponsibility and making bad choices.” Hmm, there are such things as being widowed or divorced …
It’s fine to have dating preferences and as long as you say that upfront — not interested in overweight women or women with children, etc. But please don’t blame feminism — please remember that for way too long, women were barred from colleges and from any kind of career that they could support themselves. For way too long, we needed to marry to survive (we couldn’t even get a credit card in our name until the 1960s, and men could beat and abuse us legally!) Now, 40 percent of women are the breadwinners in their family, thanks to feminism, and there are more than a million men who are SAHDs. Men couldn’t do that before feminism. Really, no one wants to go back to the days when women had to marry for financial security.
Dear OMGchronicles,
I know you wrote this in February, but I needed to chime in. Feminism has done some nasty things to our ever so evolving society. I wouldn’t exactly say that feminism is a god send. I am not going to lecture you here about my views, since persuading such a perspective is ever rarely listened to, however I will say that it is true that women are able to rise to sky in every financial facet and are now capable of showing supremacy over a household. With that said, there is no denying that, because of this, there is (and will be) more men who will not want to marry in fear of divorce and of a growing presence of emasculation. For those not familiar with this paradigm, It would be wise to take a step back and give this some thought…Yes, times have changed either for the better or for worse, but there is no denying there is a gender role struggle. There is nothing wrong with being a SAHD. I have no problems there. However, it is natural for a man (most) to have instincts that motivate his sense of purpose – to be the provider, bread winner, protector of his family. Take that away from him, and the result is… A man who will accept his fate as the men who equate themselves to anything less than satisfactory – without aspiration. Feminism has opened up pandoras box, and now lots of adversity with it – for our children, and their children’s generations.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Thanks for commenting, 3rd Derivative. Hmm, I’d say patriarchy has done a lot more damage — to men and women — than feminism. But, OK, let’s not go into that; let’s just address what you said: “There is nothing wrong with being a SAHD. I have no problems there. However, it is natural for a man (most) to have instincts that motivate his sense of purpose – to be the “provider, bread winner, protector” of his family.” Is a man who provides for his kids and protects them in non-economic ways less of a man? Can’t men be more than that; can they not bring home an income and be wonderful caregivers for their kids? Some men want that and choose it; others don’t. Isn’t it about individual choice? You are boxing all men into a narrow view of masculinity: provider, breadwinner, protector, what you call “natural.” While some may choose that (and they should marry women who are the ones who have those traditional values, too, if they want a happy partnership), others may want something other than that — let’s respect, honor and encourage their choices, too, OK? And, for the record, feminism did not strip those traditional-minded men from their jobs or fates — technology, job outsourcing, the decimation of unions, the Great Recession, etc., etc, did a lot more damage then the fact that women want to work (unless you want us to be “gold-diggers”), make as much as men do (which we still don’t), be educated (you want a smart woman, right?) and have the same sort of freedom men do (yeah, we like time by ourselves or with our friends, too). It isn’t a man vs. women thing, so blaming one gender or the other is useless and solves nothing (if there’s a problem, let’s solve it together, not finger point!). If you want to be the “provider, bread winner, protector” then go ahead and do it; find a woman who wants that in a man (and not one who wants “supremacy over a household”) — those women exist — find a job that will support that and have at it. Nothing is stopping you or any other man from having that reality. Really. Not me, not the women who don’t share the same vision as you, not feminism. Find a woman who wants you to be the breadwinner and provider, and wants to be what you want her to be, and go have a happy life. I wish you the best.
Hi OMGchronicles,
I’m glad to hear your views. I appreciate the reply back. To your questions. “Is a man who provides for his kids and protects them in non-economic ways less of a man?”
No where, in my reply did I imply such a thing, nor did the quote you took out, have a suggestive manner to that. But to answer your question, of course – I agree with you. They can bring home an income and be wonderful caregivers for their kids, but the message I was trying convey to you is that since we learn gender roles early on, it is to no surprise why as young boys, one would learn values that are geared more towards homeward stability and success, rather than other virtues, i.e. dependent behavior. Now you are right, not all men may feel this way, a good percentage of the American population may even agree with you, however you cannot deny that their are happy families with the man at the helm. Also, me stating that no problems with a man being a ‘stay at home dad’ should have alerted you that we were pretty much in agreement.
You say, “for the record, feminism did not strip those traditional-minded men from their jobs or fates — technology, job outsourcing, the decimation of unions, the Great Recession, etc., etc, did a lot more damage then the fact that women want to work (unless you want us to be “gold-diggers”)
This is subjective, any one person can blame the matter – especially if the opinions are biased. I can easily say current feminism is to blame. It’s just your word against mine. The “gold diggers” comment. A little unnecessary, no?
You also say, “It isn’t a man vs. women thing, so blaming one gender or the other is useless and solves nothing (if there’s a problem, let’s solve it together, not finger point!).”
I don’t recall saying it was a man vs. women thing, nor was there any fingers being pointed. I was simply stating my opinion on the negative aspects of feminism. You don’t have to agree with my views. That is just how I feel. I noticed your tone started to become more aggressive the more I read on. I can only conclude that you interpreted me wrong. That is unfortunate, but I get it.. Any way kudos and best of luck to you.
Tim, I don’t think it’s a double standard. Both men and women want their partners to do their fair share whether it’s financially or help around the house, etc. My mother didn’t work, but she raised 2 kids while my Dad worked full time. In addition, I have a partner who is not perfect, but I’m trying to decide where the line should be drawn.
I’ve been with my boyfriend for 14 months. At the 13.5 month mark he confessed to me that he’s out of money. I have a very lucrative job and am well on my way to pay off my mortgage 10 years early and early retirement. It was known early on in our relationship that bf makes a lot less money than me, but I didn’t care. We have had no fights or any issues in our relationship. He would pay for dates when he could, but other than that I would generally pay but it wasn’t an issue for me.
Well, turns out he is in serious credit card debt (not from clothes, vacations, etc) but he stopped paying off his visa in full in late 2009 and his usual acceptable expenses and the interest kept adding up so that now he’s $26K in credit card debt. He also has back taxes, and he’s at risk of being evicted in the next 2 months. He has maxed out his cards so he literally has no money. He knows he messed up and I’ve made spreadsheets for him (I work in finance) to show him how dire his situation is… and no, he knows I won’t give him money. I’ve told him he needs to go to his parents (sigh, he’s 38) because they are in a position to help him out but he’s too embarrassed. I also told him about Chapter 13 BK but he’s not interested. I’ve also told him that if can’t come up with a viable plan to fix this and stick to it than I can’t see him anymore.
As others have noted, he cares for me. He appreciates me. When he’s over at my place, he helps me out with household stuff without me really having to ask. He cares about people and I know he feels awful. I just don’t know how long I can wait for him or if I should just let him deal with it? After all, there’s no financial recourse to me but I’m not sure how my feelings for him should outweigh his financial issues.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Lynn, thanks for writing. It’s great that he confessed he’s out of money. It’s clear he made some bad choices. You are very right to help him get his financial ducks in a row and to ask him to come up with a plan. That’s being responsible and smart, and it’s the kind of action that either gender should be able to ask of the other.
I dated a man who also owed back taxes and etc., and for way more than $26k. But he started paying off the debt by working two full-time jobs. You need to see action and within some sort of deadline. It’s tough to do, but it will be a lot tougher — and unhappy — if you continue on as is. Good luck!
ohhh i googled this subject because i am currently considering moving things from a friends situation to dating, with a guy i have been friends with for over a year.
the last guy i dated about a year ago, he had this perception that i am rich because of teh suburb i live in. He would tell strangers i am a millionaire etc, all really embarrassing… I am not, i have a good lot of assets, (family inheritance put towards property which massively increased in value) but cash wise, income wise i am very average.
I have two degrees and work as a professional and he ran his own business. Whenever we went out for dinner, i had to pay, groceries, i had to pay, weekends away, the inference that i had to pay unless i helped him out at his work for a few hours.
Ugh so glad i got out of there. I did so for other reasons but once i did i looked back and saw i had been used all along for money. I suspected it but didnt sit and dwell much while it was happening
My tip is if you feel you are being used for money by some loser guy, you ARE being used, and run run run immediately.
The guy i am friends with now- well he is in unstable employment, casual work that changes each week. He lives in this unfathomable dump , and i mean a real bad ass student type dump. This is not for someone in their 40s. He could get something better, ie a room in a really nice share house for the same money. But instead he lives in this horrible flat, that i only just saw recently. Ive lived in some horrid places in my 20s, but this, this takes the cake.
And he never has any money to go out. Why am i even interested? because he is a beautiful loving warm intelligent guy. But i want him to want something better! the man/emo teenager thing does not turn me on.
And i am at the stage where i really want someone to be there for me, be able to rely on them , and i dont know if i can with this guy. Is it shallow?
Would you date a guy who makes a decent living (he can afford his own bills, put money aside, and have money left over for fun) even if he despised his work and had zero ambition to find another job or get a promotion?
I prefer to be single and poor than to be partnered and poor. A fiscally impoverished marriage is a gutting embarrassment. I am on a disability pension and live in a rented home. Decorating is not an issue as I am creative and resourceful. I keep my figure nice and I can afford high end (anything I need). I buy plenty of ‘whole foods’ and drink good wine and coffee. I have kept my age well due to 49 years of uninterrupted sleep and for selfishly guarding my fertility until the right provider might appear. He didn’t, I am childfree forever and I have no regrets. I can enjoy shallow pursuits such as shopping and caring for my looks. I read plenty of books of many genres so I see myself as well-versed in a few topics.
I consider myself to be a good catch. Self-educated. Attractive. Pretty house and garden. A boudoir for a bedroom. NO KIDS!!!!!! (And I won’t date a guy with kids by the way.) My disability is invisible and I manage it very well. I have my ducks in a row, as small as they seem.
Why would I want a penniless man to come along and stuff all that up? A man of means is an aphrodisiac to me. Realistically, at 49, things are looking bleak in the man department but in five years I know that will change for me. Besides, I love being single and celibate. I love being that mysteriously single woman in the room.
OK. Call me a shallow bitch but at least I am not making a poor depressed man feel worse about his situation by basking in my own stringent but easy one, right under his nose.
I know this article and response is rather old. But I would like to add my 2 cents. I’m 55 years old. Married and divorced twice. NO CHILDREN. I never wanted to be burdened beyond my means. I’m also somewhat disable. Have some deformities that does interfere with some things that I do. I have been working since I was 14. Currently I’m working two jobs. My part time job is in a warehouse that is physically demanding. Despite my deformities, I persevere. 99% of men in my life have been broke. The man I currently with, well at least up until last night, is also broke. He’s 52 and works at the same warehouse that I do as a driver. We met about 3 months ago. He’s been shady from the get go. But he’s from a different culture, so I made allowance for that. From day one he’s made it know that he was broke and was trying to set up our relationship where I would pursue him, so that everything would be on me. I had no intention of pursuing him. I did call once and try to set up one meeting; he flaked. That was as far as my pursuing went. He would call me with excuses that I never believed, cared about or listened to. Over time, he would make better efforts to be more available. But it never got as far as him coming to my place for sex. Our work schedules changed and it was difficult to see each other. I hadn’t had a relationship in over 3 years. So that was okay for the moment.
I’m not going to go into all the details, but this guy has never made any effort to show that he cares about me, other than good sex. I don’t think he’s a bad guy. He’s from a war torn country and I believe he has suffered a lot. This guy is a widow with 5 grown kids that he still takes care of 3 of them. He has a sister married to an affluent husband. She calls him constantly asking him to buy her things with his own money. He gets upset that she ask him for money, but buys things anyway. I have never asked him for anything, not ever a date, yet, I’m the gold digger! He has asked me for money twice. Once for this sister and once for gas. I gave him $10 both times. I know what time it is, lol! Last week he wanted to borrow my car. I told him no. So then, he decided that I should meet his daughter and grandson, so that I can trust him more. Last night I met him at work. He again wanted to borrow my car to take supplies to his affluent sister’s house and leave me his raggedy ass broke down car with the window just recently busted out in case he doesn’t come back in time for me to get off work. After I told him no, he finally asked me why I don’t do anything for him. I have two jobs. I know that his phone is broke. He’s been expecting me to replace it for him. This was the conformation I was looking for. I told him. I have no family, friends or children that’s going to take care of me when I’m broke, but yet I would practically have to get a third job to take care of all your problems. Sorry, but none of this is worth 5 minutes of good dick!!! He still wanted to see me after the things that I told him. But if I were to pursue this any further I know that it will be a constant guilt trip to make me provide for him.
As for the MGTOWers that are 2’s and can’t date 10’s, (Your rating system), I can only laugh at your hypocracy!!!!!
Kind of a bit worried after reading this article, I am not the smartest person there is, I know I’m not going to go out there and become an Architect or a Lawyer or anything.
But I do have a stable job, I earn less than the average salary but I have a stable full time job.
I think one of the reasons I never did the whole go to Uni thing was because When I was in my late teens my mother passed away, then my uncle passed away a few weeks later, I couldn’t really cope with it all, I dropped out of school etc
Didn’t get a job until I was 21, didn’t get, my license, move out of home and it really did a number on me, I was also picked on quite a lot in High School as I was over weight which I think affected me socially in terms of I have a minor case of social anxiety, it’s not debilitating but I do notice it and it affects certain things.
I am 24 now and I am trying to turn my life around, I have been in the same job since I was 21 (however after chatting to a few of the people there they are known for underpaying), I have lost a lot of weight and am really trying to get in shape, I bought a car and have got my Learners and am working towards getting my license, and when I get my P’s I want to move out of home, I don’t think I’d be able to afford my own place at the moment, maybe a flat, so I’d probably be looking at a share place for now.
The only thing is like I said I’m not the smartest person so I’m not going to be able to go out and get some flash high rolling career but I would like to earn more money, problem is due to my I suppose social anxiety the thought of going to Uni or something like that scares the hell out of me, I know not many people will understand as not many people have social anxiety but trust me it is INCREDIBLY hard to go out of your comfort zone in a social situation, I’m even finding getting out and driving to be difficult sometimes.
I would never not have enough money to not be able to pay my bills or pay for petrol or pay for any gifts, or dates or anything like that but I just feel as I’m technically a low income earner I would never really be good enough for someone, even though I am a selfless, giving, caring person.
Reading articles that seem to confirm that sort of “He doesn’t earn much so he ain’t worth your time, dump him!” mindset really get to me and sometimes make me think I don’t stand a chance, sort of makes me feel like a mans purpose in life now is money dispenser, his other qualities don’t matter if he doesn’t bring back a tonne of money.
I don’t know :/
I guess I’m just feeling a bit worried, nervous.
Like I don’t know I sort of see quite often if a man likes a woman based on looks he’s shallow, if he just wants sex he’s a shallow pig etc
But a guy can be the most caring and loving guy in the world but if he doesn’t earn enough money for a woman’s liking, even if combined they have enough to live comfortably it’s perfectly acceptable for him to kick him out.
I just can’t help but feel unless I get some sort of flash career I don’t stand a chance :/
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Daniel, thanks so much for your thoughts. I hope what I wrote was not a “He doesn’t earn much so he ain’t worth your time, dump him!” mindset. I observe that many women indicate that they want a man who makes a decent living, regardless of his other traits. I’m not saying it’s good or bad; it just kind of is.
That said, there are many women who don’t. Beyond that, this comment resonated with me: “I’m not the smartest person so I’m not going to be able to go out and get some flash high rolling career but I would like to earn more money, problem is due to my I suppose social anxiety the thought of going to Uni or something like that scares the hell out of me.” Let’s take them one by one.
“I’m not the smartest person.” If that’s how you feel about yourself, you’re going to project that. Maybe instead of focusing what you think you’re not “smart” at, you acknowledge all the things you’re great at, good at and pretty good at. It’s a different mindset; instead of “I’m not …,” it’s “I’m good at …” Despite the things you think are bad in your life, there’s also a lot of good — can you acknowledge them?
Then, there’s the social anxiety thing. You’re not alone in that. Lots of people have that or some version; in fact, 1 in 4 have a mental illness, from mild anxiety to OCD (my own son has that) to bipolar to schizophrenia and beyond. I agree; it’s not easy and it adds an extra layer on top of dating nowadays, which is challenging in and of itself! Add a low income, and …
But, the biggest and best thing you can do for yourself is get out of the mindset that you’re not smart (you are!), and look for situations that slowly stretch your anxiety so that it’s less anxious. I recommend the book “Monkey Mind: A Memoir” by Daniel Smith. Again, you are not alone. Which means there are people with anxiety or who have compassion for those with anxiety who will be interested in connecting with others with a similar situation.
This is not a feel-good “Kumbaya” thing; everyone is good at at least one thing, and most likely more. I hope you recognize and celebrate all the great things you bring to the world; if you believe that, someone, and most likely a lot of someones, will see that, too.
Please let me know what you think, OK?
Thank you for the response.
Yeah I definitely get what you’re saying, I think looking back on it, it’s not so much that I’m not smart I think it’s that I lack the courage to potentially fail at something, which I believe rolls back to the social anxiety aspect of things.
Also the basic fear of the actual going into a campus and meeting all the people etc which social anxiety so cruelly makes out to be much worse than it is.
I agree with the if my mindset is “I’m not smart” I will project that but I don’t think I do, I don’t go round to people saying “I’m not smart” or anything I think I’m pretty happy and cheery around people I just yeah, I’m not sure really.
I didn’t mean it so much as your article gave off that vibe, I definitely noted you mentioning several times that it isn’t a massive factor for you, it’s more that I was on a bit of a cycle of reading these types of articles combined with the comments to the article the consensus I picked up was the majority was on the side of “if he can’t pull in a big wage his compassion and caring side count for nothing” and that just makes me feel like there’s a slight double standard that exists with certain things.
Like I said I’ve been trying so hard to turn my life around but I just get the impression as long as I’m not pulling in big bucks it doesn’t count for anything. Again, not you or the article more just the general vibe I have been getting from various other articles and the comments to these types articles.
Thank you for the recommendations too I will definitely check them out!
Pt 2.
Also on the point of rather than see myself as not smart but rather focus on the things I am good at, that I am smart about. That is a very fair point however the point I was trying to make was it just seems like the impression I get is unless it results in a high income it doesn’t matter.
Being a caring, selfless and helpful person are nice bonuses, but unless he has a high income, he isn’t even in the game.
Like I said these are just the impressions I have picked up.
Daniel, at least you can support yourself if you live with someone. As long as you’re financially secure and can get an equal job if you lose your current one, I don’t see the problem finding a partner. At least you’re not unemployed, working a temp job, or working part time.
I didn’t go to Uni either and I got into a career that pays me well. It just means you need to give it 200% and go all out. Go to the library or something, learn, do what it takes and you will get there.
Truth is that you’re in love with money, exclusively, even if you don’t admit it here, it can be visible from a million miles away. Enjoy your money-digging “hearts”
I have trouble attracting financially irresponsible men. My first fiance was broke when we started dating(weren’t we all in college? ), then came into a sizeable inheritance which he began squandering so fast I called off the engagement for fear that his spending habits would carry over into our marriage. I married another man , who seemed VERY responsible with money during our courtship (homeowner, steady job, attended university, in the Army). However, he lost his job shortly after we married, deciding to drop out of college and change his career path. We relocated to a different state so he could attend trade school, and I started my career in education. I’ve held the same salaried teachers position for 4 years, in addition to taking on odd jobs and side hustles to support us while he studied his trade. Its been two years since he graduated, and STILL not hired in his field. He held temporary job after temp job, until finally working at a call center, but he was still always broke. Not too broke to have a bustling social musician’s nightlife, however….NOT the reason we moved cross country! We discussed finances face to face, and I found out he had about $300 unaccounted for each month. I don’t know whether or not he was drinking it, partying it, or spending it on women,but I knew I grew so tired of paying for rent, groceries, utilities, dates while holding down a career and watching him live it up that I separated from him last summer, telling him I need to see him achieve on his own without my support before we can continue. I have my own apartment, vehicle, career and life. He is still unemployed and living with his band mate . Sometimes u just gotta let ppl be who they are. Broke men have broke ways. I found out my hubby didn’t buy that house; he inherited it and it wasn’t even payed off; the mortgage had only been $367 and automatically deducted!!! His dead grandmother had bought him his vehicles in high school, and the Army had given him his fun money, by direct deposit. So leaving the Army, his grannys house, and his hometown meant marriage was the first time he’d ever had to make financial decisions for himself, and boy does he suck at it. The only thing that could fix us is if I had complete control of our money and gave him an allowance. ..which I’m not doing cuz I ain’t nobody’s mamma
I feel like I was reading my own story. Men who are broke like the men we attract are broken.
The last two guys I dated sucked my dry while living the fun life. Staying up all night and sleeping all day. Giving me just enough attention to keep me hooked.
I have hired a relationship expert to help me fix my picker. Because it is my fault these men come into my life. I allow this behavior. And it needs to stop.
I have to stop feeling sorry for these men and trying to take care of them and fix them. They have a mama. Go drain her bank account.
Very motivating stories
I am a successful business woman who has her own money, car, etc. Basically I have my shit together. I am like fly to fly paper for men who have no money. Listen, I do not mind dating a man who has a job that makes less than me. Money is not an issue at all. And I do not mind paying for things from time to time AS LONG AS there is respect, graditude, and a thank you from time to time. This last guy was very charming in the beginning. Took me out for dinner. Wined and dined me. I got hooked and liked him a lot. Then he drops the ball that he is broke and has no money. WTH? I said, “So you are low on cash I understand. Do not worry I will pick up the tab this weekend.” — 4 weeks later he was still at my house. Up until 3am drinking beer, smoking cigars and watching tv. He would get up around noon and start the pattern all over again. He would cook dinner but other than that nothing. There was no compassion. And when he did finally go back home I did not hear from him again until he was ready to see me again. Which means he needed money. I am sure! If he was cleaning my house. Taking care of my dogs. Helping me with my move. Changing the oil in my car, etc. I would have totally been okay with supporting him. But after a month I started to feel used and taken advantage of. Plus I found out he was lying about being in school. Why lie to me? That just added fuel to the fire.
Anyway…I am about honesty. Loyalty. Trust. Love. Compassion. Fun. Hugs. Laughs.
Money is just icing on the cake.
Jennifer
I wish I had of followed my first mind n ran as soon as I learned his situation. I am currently dating an unemployed man that is recently divorced. He has prior old felonies from over 20 years ago and got into a verbal alteration that led to his ex filing a restraining order against him last year. I put together his resume because I volunteered in the unemployment center. Therefore, he has gotten many job offers. However, the restraining order shows up once the background check comes back. His ex refuses to remove it out of spite, yet she still calls him, harasses him and wants him back. (He has put her on speaker phone). Despite warning signs and his lack of money, I have fallen for him. I too have found myself paying for almost everything if we go out etc. Most times are spent at my house or doing free stuff. No gifts on holidays or my birthday. Everything is about him struggling n trying. Yes he works temp jobs but its just enough to buy his toiletries and a bus pass. He has nothing much at all. No house, no car, no steady job and 3 outfits. We have great chemistry, mind blowing sex but honestly, its not enough. At times it feels like he gets all my benefits for free. I have put men off that can and have actually helped me, just to give him a chance because I see potential in him. I have become resentful and irritated at times. I care but I dont want to commit to a broke man. Money really does make a difference in a relationship. Its a sinking, sufficating feeling to be in this kind of relationship. Your partner should be an asset not a constant bill…
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Thanks for commenting Tosh. No one can take advantage of you unless you allow it. Great sex and chemistry aside, if you want a future that looks different, you may have to make a hard choice. I wish you the best!
I’m a 54 yr old financially secure woman and I’m ready to retire or kick down to part time work next year. I own my condo and 2014 car. I recently started dating a great guy that is 59 has a 1st and 2nd mortgage on a 150k home plus is making payments on his 9 yr old car. He seems to be perfect except for that. I don’t think I can get past that and I’m afraid he’lol pull me down just as in about to retire. Am I a bad person to break up because of that?
Hi Donnal,
I know how you feel – I’ve just broken up with someone because of being in a similar situation. I’m 54, financially secure, own my own home, have a high-paying job. He is a lovely guy, a few years younger than me, and spoilt me totally. However, he has no home, has loans, pays child support for 2 children, and has a job that doesn’t have a lot of long-term prospects. He’s struggling to pay his bills each week. I decided that there were 3 things I really wanted in a partner: 1 – treated me well. 2 – financially secure. 3 – my intellectual equal. Unfortunately – he dipped out on the final two. I possibly could have dealt with No 3, but really, No. 2 is non-negotiable. I have had to work very hard to get myself into the financial position I am. I was an orphan, and I divorced when my children were young. I had to really struggle to get my home, and succeed at work, and I do not want to be in a position where a roof over my head is at risk.
Hi, No you are not a bad person for not wanting that kind of situation and are wise to consider walking away. It is possible to discuss his debt and see if he is willing to eliminate it prior to a serious commitment. You are right, it is possible for him to pull you down financially and that won’t be easy to get back once done. In my opinion men are designed to provide ,protect , and profess their love. If they are not providing for even them selves, that is a red flag. To me men who don’t live out the three p’s are emotionally stunted and by virtue of their behaviors will put any woman in a mother role. Keep good boundaries financially and you will find someone who has similar ones. I hope this helped. Theresa
I’m a 54 yr old financially secure woman
Nice bragging, narcissist detected.
Bonaventura: envy detected
I am about 40 years old and had no/unstable jobs the last 5 years. I had a stable job before that, for 3 years, until the financial crisis and merger closed by department. Before that I had different jobs but only a few weeks of employment gap.
Because of savings I have enough cash, plus a small amount in retirement. I have no debt, with education debt completely paid off last year.
Women really dig me, but I have low self-esteem and don’t feel comfortable dating. I occasionally travel and visit family, and while there I help with cooking, trash, change diapers, get dishes done, take the kids to school, park, library, and activities. Everything a women would want except I don’t spend, not until I have a stable job and stable cash flow.
I am not dating because I have no job and no stable income, and very high stress from all of this because I am getting older and finally after doing so many family activities wants to settle down.
Doesn’t matter what has happened in society or the economy over the past 50 years. Millions of years of evolution means that the lizard brain still rules.
Poor men have a low probability of marrying a rich woman, but a poor woman’s chances of marrying a rich man is substantially better (as long as she’s young and hot). Assuming a marriage has occurred, a woman will look down upon a man who has gone down in financial status, whereas a man will not look down upon a woman who does down in financial status. However, as time goes on, a man will feel less attracted to his wife as she gets older, fatter, older, and wrinklier. That’s why age-defying cosmetics and plastic surgery is a multi-billion dollar industry for women. Can you name a cosmetics age-defying line for men? When you go to the plastic surgery, what % are women vs. men?
This phenomena is not exclusive to the USA. Same thing everywhere around the world.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
The lizard brain rules only when people allow it to rule. Are we attracted to young and hot? Yes (women, too). Do we dump someone because we’re attracted to that? Sometimes yes but for the most part, no (remember, women ask for divorce two-thirds of the time).
Most wealthy women want to marry a man who is equal (except for some wealthy women who look for a man who’s younger and hotter in which case, duh). I know many women in long-term marriages who did not look down on their husbands during the Great Recession and he lost his job (or had it significantly reduced). Many went back into the workforce full force. Sure, women use age-defying cosmetics and procedures more then men do (but men are just as vain about that stuff) — not necessarily because of their love lives, but their careers. There are many women who don’t care about a man’s portfolio and poower and there are many men who don’t care about a woman’s age and external beauty — those are the people who are happily forming partnerships that are deeply satisfying. So, look in the mirror first and figure out what you want; if it’s youth and beauty, great. Good luck. If it’s a deeply satisfying partnership based on more than just that, great. Good luck. There isn’t a right or wrong, but all of us know what we want and what we attract. Good luck!
“The lizard brain rules only when people allow it to rule.”
Yes, it does.
A variation of this article can be written as, “He’s short, you’re not — do you date him?” Why is this question rarely, if ever asked? Because 98.8% of women don’t want to date short men. Why the discrimination against short men? A lot of these gender type biases exist. Lizard brain rules.
http://www.thedatereport.com/dating/opinion/sorry-short-guys-but-i-wont-date-you/
http://jezebel.com/short-guys-cannot-catch-a-break-in-love-1479851919
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Are people not allowed to have preferences? I wouldn’t date a smoker — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date a meth head — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date a pedophile — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date a man with restraining orders against him — would you judge me for that? I wouldn’t date an obese man — would you judge me for that? There are some women who would date those men — don’t women marry convicts? — but I’m not interested, and that has nothing to do with lizards or brains. I wouldn’t judge you if you weren’t interested in the female smokers, abusers, meth heads, BBWs either. We like what we like, period. I never was attracted to short men but my boyfriend is my height — doesn’t matter because the rest of him is awesome. As I said, “The lizard brain rules only when people allow it to rule.” I have made exceptions as have many other people.
Now you go to some extreme examples using convicts and drug abusers to try to prove your point. I’m merely stating a simple fact that men are cool with dating women shorter than them, but most women (98.8%) of women don’t want to date men shorter then them. It seems you don’t want to agree with this simple observation.
I have my own house living and supporting my two boys and 3 animals that I love very much. My both sons have jobs, one has a full-time job working 15 hr. days and the other part-time because he’s still in school. I teach them about budgeting and one is great at saving, the other not so good but still make him pay me something every month. I’m in a serious relationship with a man for over 5 years now, love him very much, he’s perfect for me in many ways but his business is doing poorly and he’s completely broke even having to sell his house very soon. I pay for a lot but because his situation is so bad and hasn’t and doesn’t seem to be getting better, I’m really leaning on not having him live with me which is something we’ve talked about doing for many years now. I don’t think he can contribute to my living situation and I can’t afford him too but if I break up with him because I’m fed up of his lack of money and his big debts that makes me appear to be an awful human being, not taking him in and breaking up with him at his lowest point financially. I just don’t know what to do.
Lisa: break up with him. You have to look after yourself first, then your boys. You can find some other dude that is at least financially independent. That’s my opinion.
Lisa, I wondow how you got on? I have lived with my partner for over 6 years now and his business does not balance the books and I often pay for most things as his money tends to go back on the business or his own needs. I am tired of this as he does not help himself to find other means of work outside of his business which only really runs well for 3 months a year. He means well and we have talks about how he can plan better but he is more of a talker than do-er. I have felt pity for his situation for too long and my friends are now telling me I have to take more care of myself as I will be broke too if I continue to bail him out. As of yesterday I told him “the bank of me is now closed” We don’t have any food for tonights dinner unless I buy it again. Obviously we need to eat but I dont know how much longer I can do this without feeling resentful. I now see that this man is not motivated enough to sort his problems out even with my support he is still getting deeper and deeper in debt but when I offer ideas for solutions, he agrees but does not follow them through without a rocket up his ars*. Like you, I love this man so much, he has a great heart and loves me dearly but the stress of all of this is making us argue a lot over money. He wont even give me a straight answer of how much he made that day. I have now spent thousands of my investment money to help us move on but no more. Lets see if this relationship can survive now the money has been cut off. I will still pay the bills as I don’t want to be evicted but his 50% will be deducted from his money later this year. By the way, I earn way less then him even after business reductions! Good luck to you all. Love is never easy to walk away from without knowing you tried enough, but it can also destroy you.
There is this guy I am with. We have only been seeing each other for around 2 months. I met him online. I am 35 and he is 46. I thought he was 40 when I first met him. Found out he was 46 later on. He looks young for his age but.
I have a full time stable job and rent my own place. He is unemployed and shares with 3 Middle Eastern men. He is Spanish. Has his Citizenship. He has been in my country since 2009. Said he has worked the majority of the time since he has been here and is studying accounting. He is out of dept as well and lives on the dole (government benefits) to help him get by till he finds work.
We went out on a couple of dates at first. He always paid but now don’t anymore because of this. He has always treated me well and accepted things about me as well. He seems so nice but having doubts. Anxiety as well because I don’t want to end up having to support him. I told him if he asks me for money he is out the door. He has not yet which is good. But still… Only early days.
I have been in a situation before where I lived with someone who was a Trainee. Paid for almost everything. Most the rent and bills. Regretted not dumping him sooner because after he got himself sorted out. No thanks to me. He ended up dumping me!
I never want to be in that situation again and red flags are starting to show. I want a guy with a bit more stability in his life. I never want to have to support someone financially again. It should be 50/50 when the relationship gets more serious.
I am not to fussed about money. I don’t have to be with someone who earns $100,000, $200,000 a year. But would like to be with a partner wheo earns enough that we get by comfortably.
I feel bad that I feel like dumping him but I seem to attract these type of guys a fair bit and want to break out of that cycle as well.
Why do you feel so guilty about/think it’s wrong to go for what you really want??
Men are three times as likely to commit suicide. Can you connect the dots?
I asked my husband for a divorce because he did not work for several years despite having two impressive degrees, did not want to do anything and other problems that I will not get into. Needless to say, we tried working on them but to no avail. Also my husband was my first love; the thought of getting into the dating seen in my late thirties was nothing short of daunting. I figured I would just focus on my kids and career. Maybe date in 10 years.
Enter my someone slap me phase. During my separation, i met mr.SoWrong. We would talk and smile like high schoolers. And to his credit before things got heated , he admitted that he served a couple ( yes, a couple) of brief sentences in jail for drug dealing. Not a good thing, I mean I was always described as a goody two shoes. He smoked and although employed he was so broke. But somehow, my highly educated, professional behind began a passionate sexual relationship with this guy. I mean, I embarrass myself, really. I was so into him that over time I helped him- to the tune of about $1800. I mean there were other guys who wanted to date me. Geez, I wasn’t even ready to be out there! Somehow, I told myself it was okay, when I knew it was not. I mean, what is wrong with me?
So now, I’ve learned to listen to my gut- I could have avoided a doomed marriage, a drawn out divorce because my exhusband did not want it ( even though nothing got better) and a rebound relationship. Back to kids and career and so much happier to boot.
Maybe in ten years though…
I am 31 year old woman who had worked very hard to be successful. I have a phd and a successful consulting firm that brought in 6 figures in its first year. My hubby did not complete post secondary. He struggled with an English course and ended up washing out of a program. He is always jumping from job to job and they never pay much but he works hard and is always employed. He contributes everything to our joint expenses and really doesn’t spend much on himself but it’s still so little it can be difficult because it places nearly all of the financial burden on me. It’s not a deal breaker for me because he is truly an amazing man. He’s been incredibly supportive of me through my education and with my struggles with a few health problems, he does most of the house work, and he’s even going to take time off with our baby were expecting. I guess for me it wasn’t a deal breaker but it would be much easier if he could make even 30k a year. I love him dearly but do find I sometimes get resentful. For example, a few years ago I was extremely stressed out and hated my job to the point that it seriously affected my health (including complicating a heart condition). I wanted to quit but I could not depend on him to support us until I found something and that really sucked. Anyhow, I think it is something to consider when choosing a mate but I also think it’s important to consider what they bring overall to the relationship. Are they helpful around the house? Are they emotionally supportive? Do they spend more time with the kids?
My wife is a doctor and I never graduated high school. We have been married 16 years. I have not worked for the last 12 years mainly just clean the house make lunch to take to her and cook dinner for when she gets home. Rest of the time I work out, if I where to work I would make minimum wage at this point and it would be more of a problem with the schedule. My wife wants to take trips all the time and attends conferences in other states and always wants me to come along with her. So I really could not have a job as I would be missing to many days traveling with my wife. She makes a lot of money and there really is no reason for me to work. I don’t spend money on anything really as all I do is stay home and workout in my garage.
Oh haven’t you seen other women saying how they keep their men financially and they are okay with it but still resent them? Wake up.
She only cares about her career
I have always thought that it was funny that in any discussion on the internet , the first casualty is always the English language. This one is no different
There is site on the internet, called “the red pill”.
Its puporse is to explain to men that women are incapible of loving them in any meaningful way.
The red pill says that women are only capible of viewing men as whatever they can contribute financially, and their place in the social order.
It says that while men are capable of loving and feeling protective instincts towards women, women are incapable of this response.
This is why you will hear far less men leveraging such complaints towards a broke woman – even in a world where female breadwinners are fast becoming the norm.
The red pill says men love unconditionally – regardless of a woman’s buying power. Women, meanwhile, love opportunistically.
It basically says that a woman is incapable of loving men I’m any meaningful way, because women are incapible of unconditional love…..except when it is possibly directed at their children.
It says that while a man will often be willing to put himself in harms way for his wife – for a woman, she is incapable of feeling the depth of emotion towards a man, to justify this response.
To the straight guys out there that date Cis women: I truly do pity you, if this is belived to be true.
Apparently, if you wanted to date someone capable of loving you unconditionally, regardless of how much you earned, you should have married a man instead.
The romans thought that the love women could offer men was merely second rate – and merely based on temporary, conditional factors.
Fulfilling these conditions does not mean you are loved any less or more – because you are not truly loved either way.
All you can ever be is your financial status, and place in the social pyramid. You are a resource, and nothing more, as long as you let women such as this define your value for you.
In a world where women make more than you, you live in a world where you are obsolete and meaningless – for this is the depth of emotion they have for you.
The red pill believed the roman’s belief system to be accurate – and use this to justify misogny towards women.
(I.E. All a woman can offer you is sex. Love, unconditionally speaking, is impossible – unless you are their direct off spring.)
….
Now, I’m not saying I agree with this jaded philosophy – because I think a lot of it is social conditioning.
However, based on the responces women have given here today – you might as well be credited as coauthors in a red pill publication.
Every single response, backs up the red pill philosophy verbatim. I’d like to think the world isn’t primarily filled with such fickle, materialistic people.
However – you’re certainly the majority.
…..
Guys – if you can’t find a girl that’s not like this, then seriously – find a boyfriend.
Then you have someone who actually loves you no matter how much you make.
…..
Of course, if you reduce women to nothing but their physical appearance, then you deserve these people anyway.
Both points of view are equally shallow and exploitative – so hey, if that’s the case, you deserve each other.
So either way, I guess.
I could not agree with this post or the above mentioned red pill philosophy more. My experience in hand being the primary example. Two years ago, I was conceivably by all means (in my mind anyway) “marriage material.” At 28, I had a usable degree, stable state government job, one paid off vehicle out of two, zero credit card debt, no student loans, no mortgage, and no children. I saved more money by having a work friend as a roommate. As a bonus I would always joke with my partners they would never have to deal with in-laws. At that time, I had a steady girlfriend of over a year, and never had trouble with women before. Then I was placed on leave for over a year while my shooting was investigated, and when it was deemed justified I was able to return to work, but chose not to.
Where was my supposed loving girlfriend at the time when I couldn’t work? Increasingly pushing me out of her life, because now I was living on savings, watching every dollar going out. Now that I was no longer “useful” to her social, and economic prosperity, I was old news. Marriage and children were all up for discussion, until the point I chose to follow a different carrier path, and that would mean I would do without for a few years while I pursed my graduate degree.
So now at 30, I still have little debt, a unusable degree, a far lower paying job, and trying to start over. How’s my love life going? It’s not. I don’t have to many preferences either, just no children. Short, tall, thin, a few extra, any race, doesn’t bother me. Though it seems I’m not of value until I return to my previous earning power, where a woman can say “look mom he’s a good guy.” That way she, and her mother can say yes he does ____ for a living, he has no problem taking care of the household.
I think men have it harder as far as obtaining a stable job, and keeping it. When looking for and dating a man you have to pay close attention to his values and his ambition. Money is not an issue unless it’s an issue. What i mean is relationships shouldn’t be solely based on the amount of money you make. If you are really in love live within the household income. A man should either work or be looking for work period. If you are unemployed your job is to find a job, that’s what a real man does. Women should encourage that man. Men let’s be men and take care of our women, and women fight for your man it will make him fight for what you want.
Do not marry a man who cannot take care of himself. If he can’t afford an apartment, all the utilities, a car payment, grocery, and save a little money all by himself, don’t get involved. It was the biggest mistake I ever made and 15yrs later I’m still waiting for this 40yr old to get it together. I don’t care what anyone tells you, if he/she cannot take care of the basic necessities of life, they will always be looking for someone to “help them out”. A woman will never ever ever respect a man who always has his hands out.
Hello, I really enjoyed all the articles. I have been struggling with my boyfriend about financial things. I have a full time job and go to school and have a 5 year old daughter. He had a temp job and then got laid off, applied for his life insurance certification which took forever and I let him borrow the money to pay for the test. Then it took forever for the company to higher him and when he finally got hired, come to find out that selling life insurance, you only get paid if you sell. After working there for a long time, you get residuals. He ended up getting into a wreck. a guy was driving a company vehical and smashed into the back of his car. so now he is in therapy and waiting on getting a settlement. For the last 2 years, I have been the bread winner. He has a part time job at a pizza place, but I keep teling him that I need him to work full time until he gets his settlement check. It just seems like one thing happens and then another thing happens. He has an AD in Information Technology but isn’t using it. He has a drug felony from 10 years ago and he said that because he is black in West Virginia, he can’t get a job. I feel horrible. I am not asking to be taking care of, infact I have always taken care of me and my baby. I just think that a man should be able to at least pay half. its not his daughter, but if he is commited to me, then he needs to really go out there and not keep waiting on settlement money and his part time pizza job is just not cutting it. I feel like I keep waiting for him to be more financially secure and I am continuing to work overtime to keep the bills paid, but I feel resentful. Even though he does work part time, I told him that life is much more expensive. I am almost poverty and work over 40 hours a week. Am I right for expecting him to work full time so that he can contribute more financially. Sometimes he does clean up and mowes the grass, but he hardly spends time with my daughter, doesn’t spend money on her or me. In the last 2 years that we have been together, he has probably given me around 200 dollars from his paychecks. We just got into a very bad argument and almost got physical. He swears that from this settlement, he is going to get a million dollars because his is a professional boxer, but nothing real big from boxing. he isn’t mayweather or anything. I just thing that he is living a dream and I am more realistic. He thinks that with this settlement money, he is going to move out of West Virginia and open up his own business. He hasn’t even gotten the money yet. My question is, why can’t he just get a full time job so that he can help more around the house and not wait on this settlement. No that we had gotten into a big argument, he said that people who leave him during hard times are not good people. The people who stick around during the hard times are the good people. Does he not realize that I have been sticking around waiting for 2 years now? Please someone, give me some kind of advise. I am 32 years old with a 5 year old daughter. I work full time and go to school to finish my degree in social work. I sometimes think that I rather deal with the pain of being with him rather than dealing with the pain of being without him. I just keep waiting and waiting. I will feel kind of dumb if he gets a million dollars from the settlement and here I go, dropping him right when he may get it. At the same time, I have been waiting and its been one thing after another. I just need a man to help me and I believe in equality, if not the man be more responsible for the financial stuff. But I am a hard worker and have always been indapendant. It would just be nice to be able to rely on my boyfriend financially, not because I need it, but because it is what is right. He knows that I have a daughter and that I live a very hard life paying the bills and going to school. He said that I hurt his feelings when I asked him to get a full time job. He said, ‘what, do you think that I don’t want to work full time?” but the reality is, is he works part time and can barley help me pay anything on the bills. HELP, I probably just need to leave him alone. I am smart and intelligent and have a great personality. I am not money hungry, but I strongly believe that the man should be financially stable to take care of himself, and help me out at sometimes.
Good God this comment thread is a dumpster fire. It’s always entertaining watching spoiled rotten suburban American women offer up every imaginable excuse to try and rationalize their gold digging tendencies. American men these days would be much better served looking outside the United States for a mate. Take advantage of the internet and seek out a nice Christian woman from the Philippines or some East Asian country where women are still feminine, wholesome, and offer something of value to a marriage. American women are so full of idolatry and narcissism these days that they are just simply unsalvageable at this point. Many if not most of them possess no virtue and literally have nothing to offer apart from what’s between their legs. This thread is an excellent witness of this truth.
I’m am a financially secure widow with a good job, home, and two children. I was the breadwinner when my husband was alive, and it was never an issue. We never resented each other for our ability or inability to make money. We married for love not money, and we were incredibly happy. I’m not yet 40 and would love to marry again. I never really thought about money when I thought about dating, but I have a friend whom I adore and who has said he wants to marry me. My big concern is not that he doesn’t have a lot of money but that he has a lot of debt. He works hard at a job he’s had over 15 years, but for some reason he lost his house to foreclosure and has had vehicles repossessed. I have no idea why. He’s a wonderful person who loves me. He makes me laugh and has been a rock throughout the saddest times of my life, but his finances are like he’s a thief…borrowing with no intent of repaying. I never thought money would be a deal breaker and didn’t go into my first marriage giving money any thought. Could I get lucky in love twice or am I taking on an anchor if I pursue things with this man?
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Thanks for sharing your story, Amy. You are already lucky in love — you found a man who loves you and whom you adore. You don’t need to marry him to have that love. Huge debt is a red flag, and marriage melds your finances; unless you are ready to pay for his debt, I would think long and hard about tying the knot. The way people approach money is very important, especially as we age and especially if we have kids. Maybe he’s willing to sit down with you and make a plan of how and when he plans to pay off his debt. In a few years, he might be in a better financial place and marriage would be more attractive. Your kids have already lost their father; you want to be very careful about not causing more loss in their young lives right now. I wish you the best.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. You’re right, I don’t need to marry him just because he asks. If he wants a future with me then he can fix his finances to make that happen.
I’m 28 haven’t had a gi since I was 21, single parent 24/7 all year no mommy. I just lost my job a few months ago that when I do start making money again I’m Going to start telling women I’m broke . Looks like today’s society is different I’ll pass on this dating bullshit…
Hi OK so he is my question … I deftly make more than my man. He has a degree but doesn’t work a full-time steady job. He does work and now lives on his own although he lives in apartment that has my name on it that I sublease to him because he has not so good credit. He does pay his rent but when we go out or go on trips I do pay for most of that but I bargain shop the hell out of it so it’s not so bad. Since he doesn’t have a lot of money most of the time he does do sweet things we wall again he finds us free things to do then I really actually pretty neat or we go to matinees stay-at-home want to movies things like that. I don’t think he’s a deadbeat but it does bother me that I make more money than he does and that he doesn’t pay for really anything we do… there are some times that he does pay for things and it shocks me which kind of makes him mad but really I wasn’t expecting it so the shock is genuine. When we are together out in public he treats me like a queen but the lack of his ability to pay for stuff still bugs the hell out of me.. Am I my wrong should I let it go ? He does have children and I don’t help with them for anything if they need something he figures it out and figures out how to get it sometimes I’m a little jealous of that because if you can figure out to get things for them why can’t he figure out how to get things for me.. dammit that sounds selfish.. Any advise
I can’t help but notice that the majority of the women supporting the decision to leave a poor partner happen to have been in *bad* relationships to begin with. Isn’t this like comparing apples to oranges? Of course if you date a dead beat self absorbed leech things are going to go wrong. I think the better question is what do you do when he’s the perfect guy but has experienced hardships? There are many contributing factors to someone’s financial status. You can make good money but still struggle with debt, you can make crap money and have no debt at all; hell some people are high school grads and make better money than those with bachelors degrees. I think the old way of the male being the bread winner is out, our economy is too crappy for that kind of relationship to be the standard. Basically if you’re making money and your partner is trying to contribute, and is a good person, then they deserve a chance, because you never know when you might get demoted and your partner finds something better. Life is full of uncertainties.
I’d also like to add my experience to this. My fiance and I are both university graduates. He has acquired a reliable full time job with a decent salary (above entry level). I have applied for hundreds of jobs (including the bottom of the barrel positions) and been interviewed maybe three times in the last year and I am lucky to get a three month contract at minimum wage. We’re living paycheck to paycheck, anything I make goes into savings. All of his income goes into living expenses ( and we are renting at the cheapest rate available). Every day I struggle to keep myself together, he’s painfully optimistic but I’ve lost faith in our economy. I have no hope that I’ll ever get a real full time job, despite my education and skill set there are no opportunities in my entire province, and even if there was something elsewhere he’s stuck in our city because he won’t leave his job. There’s a conflict here; I feel compelled to leave to find gainful employment that will not only pay the bills but help me to feel fulfilled as a person, or choose to stay with my fiance at the cost of being poor and a burden to our relationship. To be honest, suicide is never far from my thoughts as each day I’m brought down by the tremendous sense of guilt and embarrassment at what I’ve become.
So if you’ve gotten this far through the comments to read my story, and you’re struggling with a poor partner, remember that we’re not all lazy gold digging leeches. Some of us are dying inside and want nothing but to do better in a world that seems cursed at times.
Oh gosh, Amen lady. Someone sees the light. Thank you so much for proving that at least one woman can see and understand what so many men are screaming. It is completely possible to be trapped, and in bad circumstances despite your best efforts and through no fault of your own. You can have everything going for you and still get ground into the mud. That is our world. Some make it, some don’t. You can fight and fail, you can do nothing and succeed. There is no formula for success. You can change the odds a bit with education and hard work, but in reality, it’s nothing more than a roll of the dice, and the “house” always wins.
Holy shit, most of you people here are completely retarded. You discuss gender roles and money as if there was a clear formula.
What’s the problem in a couple if either the man or the woman earns enough to support both of them? Why the hell worry more about the money when you should be worrying about being with someone who you genuinely like. that’s all that should matter…
Most women want equality but when it comes down to responsibility and having similar roles as possible bread earners, you tuck your tail and run? Sexist much?
Women are expensive. The more feminist, the more expensive.
From what I read.. it seems that those who have some sort of intelligence and ability to think ahead can value the importance of financial stability. I was in the middle of two situations. Both men loved me, both men were aware of each other and my choice. One man, was full of passion, fire, dreams, impulsive spender, and promises that he SWORE by to be financially stable… the other man, financially savvy AND stable, not as passionate to me, but he does love me, he is more practical and projects to save in order to be comfortable and travel in older years. Both of these men and I have some chemistry. One is more physical (broke guy), the other is more intellectual (rich guy). I chose man with money. I have money too. I chose the man with money because i gave broke guy a chance to show me that he was capable of responsibility and stability. He showed signs that it was too much of a gamble to stay with him. Practical, logical, stable, and good to me is what I feel is best in the end than passionate, whimsical, dreamy, and still good to me. Only time will tell I suppose.
The “red pill” strategy reminds us guys of the dualistic sexual strategy women follow. Commonly referred to as “Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks.” In short, during her young, hot “party” years, a girl will favor alpha characteristics in the men she dates. (there’s a reason the high school QB dating the head cheerleader is a cliché)
In contrast, once a woman hits 30, she realizes that her looks (her most important commodity in the sexual market place) are now a depreciating asset. Alphas are now chasing her younger, hotter sisters. The strategy therefore shifts to men who provide stability, are good fathers, etc.
I’m guessing NeuroChick is over 30.
I’m really tired of this alpha/beta crap. It doesn’t exist in humanity anymore. If it really did, a true, natural “alpha male” would take what he wanted no matter what the method, and is willing to die trying. Criminals are the closest thing there really is to an alpha anymore. You have money and nice things he wants, he’ll kill you, take your stuff and force himself upon your woman. She doesn’t get a choice. The true “beta male” would be the one who fear the alpha, knows he can’t win, and chooses to serve and work for him in order to survive. That same beta though will kill that alpha and take by force his possessions and women if the alpha ever shows a hint of weakness. Be thankful we don’t live like that anymore. Our twisted system today has nothing to do with anything even remotely close to alpha and beta. The legal system is shaped by those that “had” in the past, and have the purchasing power to keep buying the laws to stay in their favor and prevent anyone else from replacing them. The funniest thing about it all is that the closest thing in our society to resemble an actual “alpha” is law enforcement officers, and they are sworn to enforce rules to protect the rich “betas” that made the rules in the first place. Enough of even this garbage. The real problem is that no one knows how to be content with nothing, or more specifically, what they have. Those same perpetually rich betas over hundreds and thousands of years have used greed as a tool to shape all others into a mentality to accumulate more “stuff”, to spend and consume, and what’s worse, to actually judge your own personal value or that of others on the crap you or they have, or what or they have done. Our constant spending and consuming is what keeps them where they are for generations without count. I am tired of hearing mostly women whining about how their current flavor of the month man can’t afford to pay for a dinner or a vacation, or they leave the man over worries of retirement money. Did your great grandparents retire? Heck NO! They worked until the day they physically couldn’t anymore, then we’re taken care of by their loving family until they died. There was never any talk of retirement, vacations, stuff, stuff, stuff. If you make enough to have luxuries like that as a woman but your man can’t, rather than complain about him, be dang glad that you can at all. If you’re both doing what it takes to cover the REAL essentials of life, like simple food you prepare, not a dang overpriced restaurant, simple clothing from Walmart/Target/KMart or the salvation army stores, a simple warm safe home, not some 2500+ square foot, half a million+ monster on a lake shore, and a car that gets you to and from work safely and reliably, not some brand new 50k+ gasoline guzzeler, wth are you complaining about? Look around you at the rest of the dang world you selfish, arrogant moron, male or female. Be damn grateful you aren’t in a cardboard box hungry and sick somewhere. You bale on an otherwise loving relationship for anything that has even the slightest hint of a money issue, do don’t deserve the air you breath. Love is sacrifice, not a meal ticket. You make a life together. If that life never has a vacation, a retirement, overpriced meals out, a mansion on a hill, or a boat-load of shiny worthless crap, too freaking bad. You have absolutely no right to bitch unless you are hungry, sick, or homeless through no fault of your own. Every man and woman is relationship or marriage material no matter what their life station is, and has nothing whatsoever to do with money and earning power. If you think otherwise, I hope you get what you deserve, to die alone, unloved, and totally forgotten.
There is no such thing as “alpha or beta male”. It’s bullshit
Hi
Ladies and gentlemen I have a problem a dated this guy who is unemployed. But now I daught he loves me Cs he doesn’t listen or take take what I advise him with in practice he sleeps the whole day he just eat and sleep I just want the advise to knw if is he commited to dis relationship or not cs he doesnt help me with household either i have to come back to wrk at 8pm and cook he eats after want sex and sleep a hardly gets rest if i try to tell him he just laugh and tell me he will look for thr job next month even if i give him firections he says i dont knw the place it seems like he wants me to bby seat him.if i tell him how i feel he gets angry a dont knw if its a sign of hm nnot wanting a future bright with me or what pls help me or maybe he things bcs he is youger than me him job is to sleeps with me if i denies him sex he gets angry pls help i want to knw if maybe im being too hard to him or what
Had a boyfriend who was illegal in my country. Overstayed his visa for 8 years. Not saved a single cent. Very impulsive and careless about money buying weed, ciggarettes, sex toys, going nights out with the boys. He knows he couldn’t get a stable job because of his situation but he spends whatever he earns without thinking where would his next salary come from. He did that for 8 years! He is hardworking taking any job he can get but he has no financial values. I fell in love with him, he has a great personality, he’s funny and sweet. He looks after me in a very caring way, comforts me when I’m down and always making sure that I’m ok. He do all the handyman work around the house, takes the pressure off me when I’m tired. He is great with my son, plays with him, teaches his chores and also disciplines him. When work finally died down for good I paid for his airfare and gone home back to his home country. I even loaned him cash as pocket money. He promised to pay me back. I let him go home because I’m not ready to take him as my responsibility permanently. I let him go home to sort out his life and make something for himself. I did plan on visiting him after a month. But everything changed when he got home living with his parents. His mum dictates everything now and told him to sort out his life first before letting me to come visit. I said I’ll just visit you this Christmas. His mum said a lot of relatives will be coming home and there will not be anymore space to accomodate me, and that they will be busy with family. In short it looks like his mum doesn’t like me. He said his mum knows how he feels about me but is against the long distance relationship being that we are both miserable missing each other and crying when we Skype. He said that he loves me but he couldn’t provide for me and my son and that I deserve better. He said that he has already hurt me when he left, and now he is still hurting me for being so far away. He is struggling to find work, and his mum is on his throat all the time with work and money. He said I mean the world to him and that he wants to able to take me out or travel but he is always broke. And he feels like shit thinking that maybe it would be better for me if I let him go, and soon find someone who can take better care for me. He said he would still pay me and that he will not forget what I did for him. Once he found a job he said he will pay me back. It hurts so much. any thoughts? it hurts to think that I loved him at his worst. Now that he is back home, soon he will find a job, maybe a not good of a job cos he is a construction worker and did not go to college. But still there is chance for him to better himself and earn money regularly, and then someone else will benefit from that instead of me. I love every bit of him except that he is not financially stable. But he has a huge heart.
I’m dating a broke man and while i love him, at times, its very challenging. Yesterday, he asked me for money to buy weed. I’m thinking, “Why should i give you money to buy weed?” Scratch that: “why should i give you money period?” I work hard for my financial freedom to buy whatever i want and do the things i want to do, not to support a grown man’s habit. And I’m not opposed to weed especially in Washington where it’s legal, but i see it like this: he’s a man in his thirties and im a woman in my twenties. Im also mixed. He is caucasian. Why can’t he get it together, as i have? And why should i have to carry him? I want a leader, a provider and support if i need it. I don’t think he is any of these things because he focuses on things he believes to be more important. While honorable on one level, on another, i think its stupidity. Why not focus on making money so we can live comfortably instead of philosophy which doesn’t pay the bills? It’s all, in the end, just a distraction. I may have to leave him for his lack of focus.
TLDR; Perfect partner, see a future with him (talks of marriage and moving in), unsure of his financial stability because reasons.
Details: Both mid-twenties. I’m post-grad, he’s no-grad. I will have a stable career that makes an average 30k+ salary once I finish post-grad. He is an aspiring actor with one min wage, full-time job.
Past months since moving to my city (we were LDR), he’s been living paycheck to paycheck. Before that, living on pennies too. Trying to be supportive of aspirations.
He’s settled in to the city but doesnt have means to do anything: finish getting his degree, take classes he needs for acting, take me out, fly to see his mom, fly to see my family, go to movies, barely has enough money to buy groceries.
He keeps saying “when I have money, when I have money, when I have money,” but his job is dead end and doesn’t want more than 1 job because acting – auditions and such. Can’t get better paying job bc everyone wants a degree these days – he doesnt have one.
He also hates my charity – makes him feel guilty about not being able to provide yet he has no means to provide so whut m8? Provides GREAT emotional support, great sexy times, great conversations, great humor, helps around my apartment when I ask him, etc.
Yet all those things don’t resolve his guilt over not being able to provide for himself/me. So, feels guilty though I try to make him not feel guilty YET he also has means to better his situation and doesn’t take the opportunities. What do, OMGchronicles? Any advice on how to navigate this?
Nearing my wit’s end after 2 years. Want to continue relationship but seems like he will never get out of this rut – he may not even want to. How long a grace period should one person give another?
No: for women money and security is the only valuable thing in men. Nothing else counts. We were both academics in the humanities. We both had PhDs, and she was a feminist. She had tenure; I didd not. She started being bitchy. I told her that her problem was my lack of tenure. She cried, said yes… and wrote me the worst vituperative e-mail ever; and dumped me. That’s it. Fuck integrity: make some serious cash.
Im not sure anymore if I’m in love . My boyfriend of 17 years passed away 3 years ago we have 3 kids together I met someone on line in July and been with this guy ever since . He moved in with me supposedly not to move my kids out of their school and for me to stay local to my job. He had loans he was paying and dos tell me about it so he was has been paying me 2 payments for the rent . He sends money to his children in an other county weekly . It’s been 3 months and the money issue is the same . I got really angry and told him that I was tired of him not having the rent money on time and he started to bring up his children need his money bla bla . We are like soul mates we never argue everything seem to perfect . But I feel that he’s taking advantage of my kindness . He doesn’t and hasn’t gave me money for bills he’s always saying oh when I’m done with my paying my stuff I’ll give you money for bills . It’s been 3 months and nothing . Today I woke up with him feeling confused . We were planning to get married but I’m not sure . Help
Liz, I’m replying as you said help! I think you know the answer, just want confirmation that you are doing the right thing and not to feel alone again. I am so sorry about your loss. I can’t imagine how you and your children feel. My question here is how do you feel in this relationship? Is it giving something back to you? Is this man giving you happiness or are you too stressed about the situation. Can you accept that maybe you will be the main contributor? If not, this will turn into a unhappy marriage and I feel that you need to take care of yourself and your children and be with a man that makes you both happy. Not saying he’s not a good man, its really down to what is important to you. One advise I will give, don’t marry someone unless you accept them for how they are now. Good luck and take care of yourself. Its all about you now.
I am a high school graduate with no college, and yet I have been able to support myself my whole life. I consistently wind up with men that start out (what looks to be financially secure), only to have them all lose their jobs (yes, 4 of them), even though 2 of them were my boss at one time. While I was in relationships with them, all 4 have never recouped. One becomes more dependent and lazier than the next, until I have had enough and end the relationship, after several years and move on. I don’t understand how every man I get involved with starts out okay, and then falls into a money pit a year or two later, where they suddenly can’t afford ANYTHING! They can’t fix their broken down cars, they can’t afford a place to live anymore, etc. I am just wondering if there are any available men out there that can just hold their own. I am not looking for anyone to support me, or give me gifts, but sharing expenses equally would be just a dream come true. I had lost my job at one time too, but these men have just made so many bad decisions that they think will never come back to bite them. So again, where are men that can stand on their own, or how come I never find them? All four I met through work at a Fortune 500 business, so it isn’t like I was trolling the bars and internet. I thought I was being cautious enough. Thoughts?
I must say most of you are awful people. If he’s not willing to work hard for you, leave him, but that has nothing to do with money. If you’ll leave him because he makes less, but works hard, take a look at your shallow self. Your hurting someone who loves you, that makes you the one using him, or trying to. You are the lowest of the low and you deserve the person with money who will use you. There is so much more to life than money. Get over yourselves people you don’t deserve anything. About me: I have more than I need, a great job, and a great girl. And just by you being on this site I know you want to justify making a decision that you know isn’t right as a human.
Of course I would. Money doesn’t have anything to do with live. I can never understand how people manage to relate money to love. They’re two completely separate things. If a man thinks he can buy MY love with money, forget it. I’d rather hear him tell me how much he loves me and how he only has eyes for ME. And I’ve met those one-trick-pony kind of men, who tell you that their going to spend all their money on you because “they love you” 0yet money is just a poo ice of metal. Those men finally realised that money doesn’t impress me, and are now left to look for a woman who loves money.
What’s really messed up is…….. I’m a disabled vet and 28 how do you think I feel
Find a way to make money anyway dude, there are plently of things you can do from home…
Nonsense
As a mid twenties guy with a low and unstable income myself right now, I agree with this article. In fact I am hesitant to ask girls out not because I’m insecure or unattractive, which I am definately not, but because I can already envision the future where I will cause pain in this potential GF because it is not natural for a man not to be able to care of his woman. (I am also not looking for a quick fuck in which case it doesn’t matter, which is why many broke guys are players and sleep around. (Not always though, like myself.)) Sad that in the modern age this is solely determined by the money in your pocket because plenty of us broke guys would be strong providers/protectors on another planet, but yet this is the reality we live in. This tard guy here who talks about Truth and Righteousness that all women are golddiggers is NOT a truther, he is a fucking liar. Men and women are wired differently, by nature (or by God if you are religious). We are wired to be the head of the pack, which means that a woman will find it hard to feel attraction for you (even if you are Brad Pitt) if you are below her in the pack. Not only this but the man will also start to feel unworthy because he is failing to live up to expectations, to himself and to his lover. Such a relationship is doomed to fail from the beginning, this is why I am focusing all my efforts into improving my financial situation right now (even though I’m very not greedy), before even thinking about dating, because I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I was in a relationship and not being able to express my alpha self, because, that is my true self, I would just feel like a faker and a taker, but not giving anything back.
(Paying for dates and all that crap is not old school patriarchical sexism, it is man expressing his ability to take care of you, in other words, that he is alpha. This means that all broke guys are automatically beta’s. (This rule doesn’t apply for quick flings, only for relationships.) This is why bedroom life starts to go downhill and eventually boom, she left you. And yes, it is completely understandable that she didn’t love you anymore, because love is a form of attraction. If she doesn’t want to have sex with you anymore, she probably has a hard time loving you either…)
My life motto: “If something’s broken, fix it, don’t go crying in a corner.”
Niles,
thank you, thank you, thank you for your post. I agree and respect 1,000%. Good on you for realizing that truth. Good on your for working on yourself, so you can be proud of yourself, and attract the mate you want/deserve.
I think what a lot of women are seeking is someone like you, who essentially has their shit together/getting it together, regardless of income (to me, anyway), and are able to contribute in some manner or another.
As a women, I can’t respect any other female who insists on, or expects a man to take care of her, and can’t take care of herself (i.e. gold digger types), and as a man that wouldn’t’ be attractive to me (but to some, or a lot of men it is).
Great life motto.
Yeah, good life motto, but that’s all it is. Like the greatest battle plans, everything falls apart as soon as it encounters the real world. You can thump your chest and roar your bs “alpha male wanna be” roar all you like, but in reality land of USA and Earth 2016, pulling yourself up by your own boot straps is something rich people tell poor people to keep them hoping that maybe, just maybe, someday if I try hard enough… It’s little more than a ploy to keep the masses from rebelling. Sure, you can make some minor improvements to your born class, but you’re an utter moron if you think that hard work alone is going to get you anywhere. This isn’t the ole’ USA circa 1800 anymore. We are far more like feudal Europe where if your not born into it, you aren’t gonna get it. I’m not saying to give up and sit on welfare, you have to bust your butt for anything worthwhile, unless your one of the 1%ers, but don’t expect to go too far above your born station without a heck of a lot of luck. Even so, there are plenty people who are more than willing to step you into the ground to advance themselves, but not in a fair’s fair contest. Rich manipulation of the laws will force you to stay in your place and will destroy you and your efforts if you happen to step too far out of line, forces that you can never compete against if you’re not already one of “them”. You’ve got the right attitude, but obviously you haven’t run into the real world yet. Best wishes to you, I truly hope you are one of the lucky few, cause it’s all luck, not skill or hard work. As far as being wired or created, that’s a bunch of bs. Perhaps true thousands of years ago, but nature verses nurture my friend has wiped that out of humanity. Greed and selfishness is what rules the day. You’ll take at your current station because that’s all you can do, and heaven forbid you settle for less, and they’ll stay for the same reason. If there’s too great a mismatch, or one develops, one or the other will check out as soon as something better and obtainable comes along. You cant really defend against it because you can only progress so far in your born class. There will always be someone younger, faster, richer, and more attractive than you. That is the true nature of unchecked humanity today, not genetics. Only those who think of others, and put them ahead of themselves truly escape that truism only to be trampled into the mud of poverty and loneliness by others who don’t care. There are far more of them than there are that do, especially as the church and moral absolutes continue to die.
very real, I agree very much, very well written too
God forbid if a high salary Career woman should ever go with a man that makes a lot less money than she does. A miracle.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
Actually, I know several career woman, a doctor, an attorney, an entrepreneur and a marketing specialist, among them, who married men who made a lot less (or none; they were SAHDs) than they did. So your point is …
the point is that the men you talk about still probably made a rather good salary.
Those women are just the exception and exception doesn’t make the norm
As a guy, I have NO problem whatsoever dating a woman making more money than me, even significantly more. Maybe she’s smarter than me or works harder than me which is very attractive to me, and I feel like being with her will challenge me to become better (even if I never match her level because she’s more talented or something, I would feel proud of her and feel lucky to be with her). Or maybe she just happens to be in a profession that pays more. Make no mistake, I work hard, am ambitious and passionate about my career, and being able to make enough to support myself so as to not be a burden on someone – which I do – is extremely important to me. If my partner makes more, for me, it can only be a good thing. I’m even open to being a househusband if we decide to have kids. I’m open minded, don’t believe in outdated traditional gender roles, and don’t have the stupid “ego” that most men seem to have.
The trouble is, there are barely any women out there who would want to be with someone like me, especially considering that I’m not particularly attractive physically (no one – at least no one I have liked – has ever found me handsome or hot in the least). That’s my sad situation, unfortunately.
On the flip side, I would have no qualms dating a woman who makes less money than me as long as she is able to support herself (and as long as she is ambitious and passionate about her work). Supporting oneself, I believe, is one of the duties of being a responsible adult – whatever your gender or profession/passion. Don’t get me wrong. Will I help her out financially if she made a lot less than me or if she were laid off or something? Of course I would, but that situation would probably be a bit further down the line – like once we get into a relationship.
Oh dear…..
I read this article then a few of the replies below it and I have to say I was shocked! shocked at both.
Is this what we have become? Shallow insensitive people who are only concerned about one thing….how much money we or someone else can make or have?
There are multiple comments on someone coming from “poor backgrounds” etc which go on to refer to those people as not being good dating material, and all from women I might add sadly.
In an age were women are fighting for equal pay and a whole host of other things this really was a sad article to read……
Why is it that a man who earns twice as much as a women or ten times as much as the next man is considered good marriage material…why?
If he is an asshole….then he is an asshole! he always has been and always will be. And if the world and all it’s problems are anything to go by….like the desire and need to aquire everything and anything at someone elses cost…at all costs….it is these same high paid assholes that are the problem, not low paid broke men. And what is happening…..we aspire to that being the norm! They are being bred at a rate second to none. “Get an education son, make as much money as you can son” etc etc etc. Let me tell you something for free….I won’t charge you for it…..In that conversation there is never mention of a women…of getting married and having children. It is always and only about money! why? (think about it….give it some real thought love!)
So lets just keep breeding A-HOLES, then when we are all extinct……..
Thankfully there is always an alternative…..!!! thankfully.
What do broke men offer the world?
Broke men offer women firstly the opportunity to forge a career for themselves. Broke men offer women the space to get an education by making way for them. Broke men offer the emotional support to women needed to cut it in a male dominated workforce. How? because they know how the axe falls, the pitfalls etc. That’s not to say women dont but in a male dominated workforce men have the greater experience, at present.
Broke men offer greater protection. That’s right…broke men offer greater protection!
A broke man, will still stand his ground as he has more to lose than his high paid counterpart….under the current model.
A broke man is at the bottom of the heap. Mostly it’s other men who stand on broken men but there are a few women starting to do it.
Have you ever thought how strong an individual must be to become the platform for everyone aspiring to put a roof over their head or food on the table? Probably not if this article and it’s responses are where we are at….
If a women values a man by his monetary worth and not by his true worth which is his character then it is women who will lose, not men.
Money is fickle, it comes and goes but character has stood the test of time.
Imagine a workforce full of women, run by women. Under the current model if we were to switch it today what would happen? Women would be at work making the big bucks and making all the important descisions to ensure everything runs smoothly and men would be either………..down the pub getting pissed, around at their mates laughing and joking or at a formula one race….and where are the kids while all this is going on and who is looking after them???
Guess what!! women don’t need to worry about those things with broke men do they beccause they have no money for alcohol, no money to watch sports and probably no friends, none with money to pay for those things anyway.
The important thing to remember here is the children. Good broke men offer good protection, sounding boards and generally good life advice for children of all ages…good broke men I said. (Currently the world is full of them so if you are a single women the odds are with you.)
Behind every successful woman is a broken man, FACT!
As a woman, if you want to succeed and dominate the workforce, make the important decsicions then you need a broken man behind you. A man broken by the male dominated system, why? because who want’s a man broken by a woman……..? Don’t women make men?
Now get out a find a broken man and become the woman you are ment to be!
Colin, really? Behind every successful woman is a broken man? I don’t think so. I agree, money isn’t everything, and an asshole is an asshole. I have a boyfriend who is just about making ends meet, and it’s very stressful for me. Why? Because I am a single mom, kicked my butt to get where I am. I’m also 60, and with a man who has nothing to his name. And I mean nothing. He’s a great guy, we have a lot in common, but it has taken a huge toll on our relationship, because I worry about a future, retirement, with this man. He works very hard, but is barely getting by, and it worries me. I have never been a woman who expects someone to take care of me, but I want someone that can pull their own weight next to me. I’m struggling with what to do, whether to continue in this relationship or not. Am I bad person? I don’t think so. All my girlfriends adore my boyfriend as a person, but they all completely understand the struggle I am having. It’s one thing when you’re in your twenties, but it’s another when you’re looking at retiring with someone.
My gosh…”he’s a great guy”, “you have lots in common”, “he works his butt off”, “your friends all think he’s great”, ect…so the only thing causing you to contemplate bailing out is money, retirement money, and YOUR FRIENDS ALL UNDERSTAND???! I’m sorry, but you are why this article is written, and why so many men are either angry, sad, or completely defeated by this and so many other articles just like this. Every other comment here can be deleted because the above sums up everything. I know you mean no harm or ill will, but the fact you’re questioning a future with an otherwise great sounding man because you’re worried about money in retirement regardless of he, by your own admission, is doing the best at everything he can is the keynote idea behind this entire article. Guys, this is it right here, have money or you are worthless, and you especially better have it as you near the end of the game. If you don’t, whether or not you’ve been faithful, loving, supportive, a great father, husband, friend is irrelevant. Do your “her” a favor. If you truly love her, take out as much life insurance as you can afford while you’re still young enough to get it, wait at least a year so it doesn’t look suspicious, then find a nice oncoming semi some random evening on the way home from your “bust ass for nothing” job that you’ve worked at so long and hard to pay the bills and support her as best you can, and “accidently” cross over into it. Make it look good, perhaps have some freshly bought groceries in the car with you, frozen items look the most convincing, and make sure you have made some future plans, perhaps an upcoming vacation in a week or two on a calendar at home. We men are nothing more than a means to an end apparently, and when we are no longer useful, and every last ounce of strength and ability to make money is used up, out you go. Give her what she always wanted out of you in the first place, a free and secure ride. I’m exactly like your guy, trapped in a bust my butt for nothing job, but it’s the best I can do situation, left high and dry with 4 kids by their mom and a ton of her debt, so she could go chase a guy with more money and no kids, out of the country to avoid childsupport. I have a bit more time before retirement than you, but don’t expect to ever be able to. Digging out of the hole I’ve been placed in will take longer than my body will ever sustain. My only focus now is to make sure as best as possible these wonderful, blameless small children at least get a better chance than I did. Everything I have or ever will have is for them. I’ll never let them see it, especially the boys, but being a man today is nothing but a cruel joke. The most important thing I believe I could ever pass on to them would be to avoid relationships at all cost, but I don’t have the heart to do it. I will sing the praises to remain single because of all the good things one can do for others by remaining that way. A relationship will take away from the ability to serve others for the greater good of your fellow human. That’s the best “line” I can come up with without expressing my true feelings. Game over…
Replying to my own comment, yes, because after reading over it myself, I saw that I completely came off as angry and depressed. Perhaps, but frustrated is the more appropriate feeling. Since no longer having to worry about a relationship, especially since I had no say in the matter either, has been exceptionally difficuly, but also liberating. As stated before, all my efforts can go towards making a better life for the children, and nothing needs be held back any longer to keep “her” happy. I no longer need to worry about spending 50$ on a dinner that should otherwise go into a college fund or a couple pairs of needed new school shoes. I can take funds that would otherwise get pissed away on some weekend hotel “getaway” to cover the co-payment on braces for my daughter or new, unscratched glasses for the boys. I am lonely, but content. I do nothing for myself, and I’m fine with that. We are a family, and although new clothes and a restaurant bought meal is an extremely rare treat, we are happy. My house is tiny and in need of some at present unaffordable repairs, but it’s paid for, and the old ford minivan we have is a bit rusty and more than half my age, but it too is paid for and reliable. Will I ever retire? Not a chance. Am I upset about it? Not at all. I will grab every opportunity I can to make things better if at all possible, but they are what’s important, not me, and I’m fine with that. Am I lonely? Absolutely. Did I want to be alone? No. Over the past years have I tried to find another, and absolutely not said anything like I mentioned above? ABSOLUTELY! Will any woman give a broke 40 something man with 4 small children even the time of day? —be honest now ladies— The answer, by your own admission here, and on countless other forums just like this, is an astounding and very passionate “HELL NO, AND I’LL SCREAM SEXUAL HARASSMENT IF YOU EVEN ASK!”
She is entitled, end of story.
I married for love. Into a working family. My family was well ofg. Was married for 20 years. I knew my ex liked to spend but he started with small credit card bills. Over time we were in major debt. He financed cars every year at min. Boats planes and more. In the end he cheated and left. He didn’t think he’d have to pay support. He pays a lot for kids as he made good money but spent way more then he made. I did everything to support his career growth and moves. Now if i ever date i will ask about finances first. What their views on credit are. On saving. On debt. It’s not about the pay check but what their view on money is. It’s very sad when a family is destroyed because of one partners reckless spending.
I think some of the guys are getting the wrong message that women only care about money when looking for potential marriage partners. Yes we care that they make enough to support themselves, just like we support ourselves. It is not about them being able to pay for more its about them paying their share! If I am dating someone I have no problem for paying for dates, but only if they pay for the next one, I want equality not to pay for everything. Or if you go to the movies you can buy the tickets and they can buy the snacks, see? I came across this site and have read through every single comment……I mean really the things some of you have said is so backwards. I am going to repeat myself, pay your share! that way there is no resentment. I made a huge mistake by letting my ex live with me for free so he could pay off his issues faster, fix his car, go to court to get custody of his child (which he never did) kept making excuses because he didnt make enough money. I paid for everything and loved him very very much…then one day I found out he was cheating on me and I told myself NEVER EVER again will I let anyone use me. Kicked him out and now he is living with the women is cheated on me with, using her just like he used me but still emails me telling me how much he loves me…..ARGH! Now I am back in the dating world and have dated a few guys that even though they make less then me, they pay for their own things and sometimes can afford to treat me(which is great, not needed but a nice surprise) I love buying gifts for people it makes me happy so I have treated them as well. It really is all about both parties being equal, and the drive to do better for yourself.
Well then again there are so many Career women nowadays that are so very independent, selfish, very spoiled and Greedy as well since they will Never go with a man that makes much Less Money than they do since many of the women nowadays really want the Best and will Never settle for Less.
Twitter: OMGchronicles
says:
So, are independent “career men” selfish, spoiled and “Greedy”? Do they want less than the best? Do they want to settle for less? Wouldn’t a woman who makes her own money be less likely to be a “gold-digger”? Do men really want women to marry them to support them or do they want women who can bring their own money and stuff to the table so they can be equal partners? What do you want — a dependent woman who’ll marry anyone who can support her or an independent woman who seeks a good man not for his wealth but for who he is?
Well it is very true what i have said with my last comment which Most of the women today Unfortunately are very Spoiled, Selfish, Greedy, and very money hungry as well do to their Careers that made them that way which is very Sad how the women of today are Nothing at all like Most of the real Good old fashioned women were years ago that really made a much Better Wife anyway which today Most of the women that make a very high Salary do cause Most of the divorces now and it is a Known Fact. They’re very much to Blame why many of us Good men are still Single today, and there is No Reason why we should take the Blame since many of us men are Not Single by choice. And many of us men which i am sure that many others will Agree with me as well since many of us had really been Hurt by these type of women already. Just remember it does Take Two To Tangle to get married since many of us men which i will Admit that i really Hate to be Single when many of us Would’ve been all Settled Down by now with our own Good Wife And Family had we been born many years Earlier since we really Could’ve Avoided this mess today. Born at a very bad time for us.
Oh sweetheart, the good old fashioned women of back in the day didn’t have a choice but to be a wife. What exactly makes you a good man, anyway?
Whining about your life sure as hell doesn’t. Shows low self-esteem and not willing to improve your position in life, or just be happy with yourself. Looking for a wife and child to make you happy. No woman wants that burden. If you can’t be happy on your own, don’t expect anyone else to do it for you.
Bunch of whiners.
I have never been one to judge a man on his income or living situation because my living situation isn’t great and has been worse in the past and my income is only JUST getting to where I want it to be. I wouldn’t want to be judged on those things so I didn’t do it. My relationship with a broke, long term unemployed man who lives with his mother. I always got a hard time from other women for accepting him with all these flaws in their book. I got told I should be aiming for a man that will pay my bills whether he lived with me or not, had a car and a place and paid for all dates. I’m a ‘take you as I find you’re kind if woman though so his situation didn’t put me off him. I’m very independent and do for myself not expecting a man to fund me or my life so it wasn’t an issue. I also have no problem paying for myself on a date or treating him from time to time. If that’s my guy I have no problem. What WAS the issue was the behaviour he started to exhibit. It felt like he was frustrated at his own situation and took it out on me. I tried to help him job hunt, I let him know I was in his corner and wasn’t going anywhere as long as he was faithful, honest, loyal and loving towards me but to no avail; he took out all his woes on me and enough was enough therefore it had to end. Now I’m back in the dating pool I want to stay true to who I am and keep my take as I find attitude but dealing with this has me wondering if there’s some truth in articles like this.
I have never been one to judge a man on his income or living situation because my living situation isn’t great and has been worse in the past and my income is only JUST getting to where I want it to be. I wouldn’t want to be judged on those things so I didn’t do it. My relationship with a broke, long term unemployed man who lives with his mother has just ended. I always got a hard time from other women for accepting him with all these flaws in their book. I got told I should be aiming for a man that will pay my bills whether he lived with me or not, had a car and a place and paid for all dates. I disagreed because I’m a ‘take you as I find you’ kind if woman though so his situation didn’t put me off him. I’m very independent and do for myself not expecting a man to fund me or my life so it wasn’t an issue. I also have no problem paying for myself on a date or treating him from time to time. If that’s my guy I have no problem. What WAS the issue was the behaviour he started to exhibit. It felt like he was frustrated at his own situation and took it out on me. I tried to help him job hunt, I let him know I was in his corner and wasn’t going anywhere as long as he was faithful, honest, loyal and loving towards me but to no avail; he took out all his woes on me and enough was enough therefore it had to end. Now I’m back in the dating pool I want to stay true to who I am and keep my take as I find attitude but dealing with this has me wondering if there’s some truth in articles like this.
Sheesh, so many of these guys with their boo hoo hoo sob stories. Don’t blame the world because you’re a LOSER. Let’s face it–that’s what you are. You whine about women not giving you a chance, but I don’t see you trying to date old, fat, ugly women. No, instead, you whine about how hot young women don’t want to give a chance to someone who is broke, out of shape, and ugly. But you have “so much love to give.” Bwahahahaha! Bwahaha! Bwahahahahahahahaha!
My point exactly!!!!
Oh lord, forgive me, this is horribly inappropriate, but I just can’t resist. To quote the infamous words of the mighty Quagmire from Family Guy…
“Fat women need lovin’ too, but they gotta pay!”
(I’m sorry…lolol)
Yeah, and a broke ass man wanting a hottie has to pay too!! But MGTW’s expect hotties to pay them for small penis mediocre sex!!
Feminist detected
I believe every person needs to be sensible when in a love relationship. Sensible is not being uncomfortable in a situation no matter how loving it can be behind doors. A man(or woman) that can only afford an occasional bowl of soup at the local grill is hard on the spouse. Low self esteem is not comfortable and is wearing on both.
I feel being alone is better than having underlying feelings of uncertainty and sadness or doubt. I also think that a person needs to be the best they can for themselves before they can be in a loving relationship with another.
It is worth the wait ….what is wrong with waiting and seeing how things play out….healthy for both.
All of the “working men” you seek are in CHINA because that’s where all the work has gone; where everything is actually being made. “The men” are also back in another time… because in our hyper digital automated society, they are not needed. No more true creativity, ingenuity and enterprise is required as computers are starting to do that for us. Wives making big bucks are simply following programs and not inventing anything new. Your pseudo-husband is the government, which gives you all kinds of goodies because you’re still classified as a weak minority (e.g. female and/or single mother). Why complain? Just hold your horses because the robots are coming to hammer all your picture nails and screw you at night… for a affordable monthly subscription fee. In any case, women, you are next to be eliminated from the market so enjoy your rewards now. Meanwhile the shreds of human men left will become prominent once again if the world ever goes to shit and we’ll be back to 2000 years ago and you’ll be back to scrubbing pots.
Whiny beta. I don’t need a man to hang a picture of me, or fix my plumbing. Thanks, I got it. And really, women aren’t creative and can invent shit? Typical misogyny right there. Stop complaining and invent something yourself, become and entrepreneur and make something of yourself. But no, you’re whining on a message board. Clown.
Nice shaming tactic. But sorry, it doesn’t work. There is no such thing as “alpha or beta”, it’s an oxymoron.
I’m very sure that your username refers to “alpha female”. There is no such thing as “alpha female”, it’s just a euphemism for narcissistic and entitled women.
If wives are making big bucks, then all the jobs must not be in CHINA!!!
That’s kind of ironic. My entire youth was destroyed because I was low income. I lost all my friends and was constantly humiliated and always angry and just stuck. And all the teachers went back on this in denial logic and said I was doing it on purpose. While they just ignored all the insults and rumors. People wouldn’t even hang out with me on the weekends because I couldn’t go to concerts or to the desert. My entire career and path as a human being was pretty much crippled because apparently everyone born generation x and after got this except the parents. Now I am grown up and not only is this a reality but bullying turns into gang members, gang stalking and people joining wannabe adult “old boys networks”. The people before them would think rationally and go independent but these new people are straight crazy and will never let the people they targeted alone. I can’t move, I can’t retaliate I can’t do anything because all the people who could help me told me this stuff is a lie and I am making it all up. No one is that superficial they said.
Well this whole money versus not isn’t just a social standard in dating it’s almost like a new class level. If you are out of money, you are classified as a threat and they will actually black list you for fun. Like in that movie mean girls, where the girls bully that one girl and nearly kill her after they jump her. Except it’s more like in careers. You can not work in a specific state because networks go so deep.
I mean if you look at how shallow the logic is you can see how dangerous it would be to have that in every aspect of life. Well, guess what. It’s inside every aspect of life. Even look at the spiderman movie with Toby McGuire or that xmen movie. They totally dumbed down the super heros and violence and other aspects because people with money who don’t like them said so. They took something they have no interest in and published it how they would like it even though they weren’t buying the product they are selling. Now I can’t even play videogames because this trend has turned games from just awesome stories to these weird social media experiences. I was happy when I could just type stuff on a ms dos screen in zork and now I have to spend money monthly to prove my worth to even get permission to play.
I think women who don’t date for money or, who see this trend and look away exist. They might become rich or not. Pretty much the only kind I can even talk to, women who do improv comedy. Because the whole hustle is just a giant game to improvise in. Mine as well do it well or find someone at that level.
I suppose I have experienced many of the examples, I have supported a man and was taken advantage of, I have shared in the financial responsibilities, but really did not feel like I was being treated like a Lady, only a partner. I have dated guys that felt all dates should be split. Since, I’m somewhat old fashioned, that just did not work. I had a man live with me in my home that started charging me for everything he did, so that he would not have to contribute to the bills. Well, you know what happened. Now, I have decided that at the age of 54, I’m going to semi retire and start enjoying life before I’m 70. I have just started dating again after almost 3 years and can take care of my needs, but in no way can I afford to keep up with Jones, as I have in the past. Money is just not that important to me, but you can’t survive without it. The guy I am dating really does not know that I only work when I elect to work. Then, again, we have only been dating for a few weeks. He obviously works all the time and I don’t want anybody to think that I’m a burden. I raised, supported and sent my kids to college on my own, but due to a life threatening event, I have decided to love everyday, because we are not promised tomorrow. No, I’m not dying. What do I do with this information.? I have to be honest and can not start a relationship with a lie. I have no debt. I own my home. My vehicles, no credit card debt ever and a nice retirement set aside when the time comes. Does this sound crazy? Will a man understand where I’m coming from? He speaks of big vacations and for me to do what I plan, bug vacations are not part of my current plan. Maybe a few years down the road, but I need to work it all out. I suppose, if he runs, its he’s loss.
I never planned to meet anyone that I would consider in my life.
I am divorced two teen boys..my ex became mean when he became successful. Together 16 years until cheated coworker and moved out of state leaving me to raise boys. Meanwhile met a wonderful man that’s helpful,kind,mindful..three years and lots of fun. But he’s lost home,his car,two bankruptcies..he’s almost 59..on his fourth job since met him..lots of loans..he’s paid back only to borrow again. I’m finally at my breaking point and becoming resentful. I took an extra job to make up for the loans and he is too good to go wait tables?! He likes to do things around my house and act like he’s such a help.
I’ve done fine by self…my ex travelled. It is like he does things to look valid. His ex wife said always was case all years she was with him. He’s always trying to reassure me and promises as to what he’ll be able to provide going forward. I feel like don’t want to dump a nice guy over money..but truly I’m 46 and not getting any younger. I don’t want to struggle in retirement years. Like a guy who at least carries own weight.
He’s almost 50
So you’re closing in on retirement, and your worried about your “good man” who apparently sucks trying to manage money? Who says you’re going to be able to retire? Your health that good? Your saving and investments somehow protected from another huge scandal that steals it all away? You’re starting to resent him over money issues, or his lack thereof. Hmm, are you married? If so, skip down a few sentences, if not STOP BAILING HIM OUT! If he’s that good to you in all but $$$, wth are you complaining about? You want a rich asshole that is cold and uncaring, who treats you like trash, or doesn’t treat you like anything at all? You have food, a place to live, a job, and a little extra change in your pocket, and a man who loves and cares about you, nothing else matters. He’s not a bum, he just sucks with money. Are you perfect? You talked of retirement, fine. Who do you want holdin your hand in your hospital bed? Sharing a room in assisted living? By your side in a nursing home everyday while your mind slowly fades away, or cancer slowly eats your body? Back up a bit…before that time, you want to be alone in a possible retirement? Some old lonely hen gathering at a table in a local bar or restaurant with other lonely hens to play cards and complain about your neighbors once a week? What fun is eating out alone, or vacationing alone if you can afford to do so? That’s why men don’t hunt, fish, golf, or even drink alone at any age, it sucks. What does it matter to keep your money only to spend your golden years and then die all by yourself? So he sucks with money, he gets by right? He’s had four jobs in a short period of time, at least he goes and gets another. Too good to wait tables…well, he can ditch that attitude. You take what you can get whatever it may be if that’s all that’s available. He treats you right, that’s what counts. How do you treat him? Do you love him? How much? Would you die for him? If so, then why not live for him and forget the money crap. Live your life and be happy and content with whatever you have. There are no guarantees. Be grateful that even though he cant piss away cash on fancy shiny junk, you can. All this crap about pulling ones weight equally, bs. Men rarely expect a woman to pull her weight, so why do women think this way? You want money or happiness? You generally can’t have both at the same time. One almost always destroys the other. They are almost mutually exclusive. Thinking you can have both will more than likely find you sitting alone in a wheelchair in some retirement home screaming nonsense at the moon. Love is sacrifice and service. Forgive me for going “bible” here, but it’s a great example. In the new testiment, when asked by a rich man what he could do to be “saved”, Christ replied, “sell all you have, give it to the poor, then follow me”. Go figure the the guy bailed. The guy got hit squarely at his greatest weakness. Money and possessions would have interfered with his ability to serve. Fear over money will prevent you from your hapiness. I’m not saying throw everything you have away, one must always be as responsible as possible, but don’t let money fears corrupt your feelings. If you’re married already, embrace him, but pull back the cash for all but what’s necessary for normal life expenses, and discuss with him your concerns. If he can’t pay the check when you go out, no big deal if you can. If you don’t like that, don’t go out. An out meal is a joke if the hours of sacrificing your life and time at work in order to pay for that meal takes longer than that meal can sustain your body. Thats not being cheap, that’s being responsible. Grab some cool snacks and pop at the grocery store, put on comfy pjs, and cuddle with him on the couch to some Netflix or Hulu. Put what you saved in your retirement. If you found real love again, screw the money. Grow old together and be happy no matter where you are.
I find such articles funny. In a society where men and women fight to be equals in the workplace, it’s amazing to see how a man could be following a low paid vocation that benefits society as a whole and yet be ostracised for earning below the average. I read another article about how women hate it when men always go on about money and keep tabs on how much is spent. Equality of pay has meant ithat is perfectly viable for the woman to be the breadwinner nowadays.
Moral of the story for the guys appears to be : Earn good money and keep it by your side so you can appear ‘wealthy’ to women at all times. If you let her spend your money carelesslt by being too ‘laid back and nice’ you will one day be broke and she will leave you, no matter how caring or nice a personality you’ve got, since earning a lesser wage obviously makes you ‘immature’ and ‘not marriage material’.
From what I’ve heard here, I’m not sure if decent, caring, unjudgemental women even exist, and therefore whether getting married is such a great idea. Luckily I earn lots of money but I will certainly make sure it stays in my wallet.
Also, it makes me wonder if men should be pre-filtering women not only on appearances and personality but on income as well, as if I’m earning six figures, I would love for my partner to also earn six figures such that she can support her own spending and not require any financial aide. I think choosing women who earn six figures as an essential criteria may be the way forward for men in general – and anyone earning less can be called ‘immature’ (equality rocks). 😀
Hi,
I am a graduate and have been living with my boyfriend who is a houseboy for 6 years. We have a son. I am 30 years old he is 33years old. He has never attended college and seems comfortable working as a cook in a house. I have always encouraged him to go back to school, but every time he keeps postponing on the excuse that we do not have enough money to support his education. With the little that we have, i have always assured him if he starts his college education little by little we shall manage, but till to date he shows no interest in going back to college. He doesnt even have computer knowledge. What makes me more miserable, is the fact that I need someone who can support me in my spiritual life, pray and fast together, support each others careers irrespective of our current levels. The problem is hes none of that, I feel so drained off energy, and lack of a future. He doesnt seem to have any interest to go back to college, and spirituality is kind of a pressure to him. He does not even see the value of giving in the church. We have a handsome and intelligent 3 year old son, i feel my son will lack a role model in his father if i continue till death do as part. At the same time, hes so attached to his father that i feel it will greatly affect him if we separate. At the moment I am working my wits out to progress in my career, I have tried jumpstarting a business for him, but still he shows no interest. I have tried pushing him to either run a business or go to cookery college, but yet I see no effort on his side. Hes from a poor background and so I am I. My parents dissapproved of our staying together but I always he thought when i get a good job and earn good money we will make things work out. Now I am so stressed and just dont know what to do.
You have a child, and a young one at that, there’s where your focus should be. It’s no longer about you and your man. Building a home and future for him now is what you two work towards. You like and value your career and pushing it forward. He likes being a cook, and has no desire to change that. Both of you need to sit down and talk hardcore, and honestly about how you feel about everything. He needs to know how much all of this is bothering you, and you need to at the very least take his feelings and desires into consideration. Would you force him to do something he hates just to satisfy your desires? Will he really do absolutely nothing to make even the slightest improvements or changes to himself to help ease your concerns even with full and understanding knowledge of what you are feeling? That child is now #1, and his needs go 1000% above you and your man’s. My own belief is that I would gladly die, or live with eternal pain and suffering to make dang sure that the children have what they need first. If there’s nothing left for you or the man, that’s the price you must pay to be a good parent, and you must learn to pay it with joy in your heart, always. Too many people who call themselves parents forget that. You value your spirituality, so you should know that you put yourself last and others first, especially your children. Your man should feel the same, whether he’s spiritual or not. I wholeheartedly agree that his lack of spirituality and your devotion to it is a painful issue, but again, time for some hard core sit down talking with him. If you are a believer in “till death do us part”, and you love him, you owe him time and absolute honesty with how you feel, and need to try to understand and work with him, exactly as he does for you. The only thing that ever overcomes our human selfishness that so often destroys families and couples is a willingness BY BOTH people to give of themself to the other 100% in all things at all times, not to merely meet in the middle. All you are is his, and all he is is yours, and all you are together is for your faith and your children. No one is perfect, so at times when you fail, he’s there to cover for and carry you, and vise versa. That way, together, you never fail. Calling it quits shouldn’t even be a thought because of money and finances if, in your own words, he’s a good father and a loving, caring man to you. If you go down that dark and devasting path, it must be absolutely necessary and unavoidable because of truly unreconcilable conflict over your spirituality and he, after knowing completely how you feel, and having no desire to make himself better in some way for you and the child. How much are you willing to sacrifice for your family, how much is he? It has to be both, willing to give all, for the sake of the other in love. You cannot sacrifice your faith though, that’s more important than either of you. Talk to your man, truly talk to him. Talk to your pastor. Don’t keep these concerns inside, they will eat you up as they already have been. Give him a chance to know how you truly feel, and as a guy here, I mean it, make darn sure he knows how important and critical this is. Men go on “cruise control” way too easy, and fall into a “no news is good news” mentality. I’ve heard way too many “if he really loves me, he’ll see I’m unhappy” stories from women. Trust me, we don’t! I’ve also heard way to many men state that “if she’s unhappy, she’ll tell me what’s wrong”. Yeah, right you do, but often not until it’s too late. In my own failed relationship, I tried everything I could to keep her happy, but half the time I was working in the dark with no guidance. She wouldn’t tell me anything that I could work with or understand. The “shotgun” approach of randomly trying things in the attempt to find something that works, doesn’t. Guys like to fix things, your man is a cook, he likes to build something from nothing. Get him to understand in the framework of a recipie. Step by step, with clear and understandable feelings that he can identify with. Give him time and understanding as well. Change sucks, and the older men get, the more change hurts, even when we want to. If he truly loves you, you’ll be able to tell over time by his attempts. He might not be as successful as you’d like, but you’ll know by the attempts, but don’t make him do everything, you have to give toward him as well and become at least a little more of what he needs of you as well. If you stay the same and he is forced to do all the changing, then you two are only switching the misery around, and not actually solving anything. Screw the money, do you love him? Does he love you? Allow your spirituality guide you. How much are the two of you willing to sacrifice for each other to become the “till death do us part” family you desire and should be?
im currently in a relationship, we’ve been together for a year already, and im going to be honest here.
When i started seeing him, i knew he didnt have a job, sometimes he used to dive in to the sea, to catch some fishes to sell them and make some or Gold for that matter, anyways, the point is that i made him very clear at the beginning of the relationship that i didnt want to be in one, because i was looking for something long term, which he was pretty insistent with me to make me say Yes to the relationship,.
6 months after we were in the relationship he got a job in a supermarket as security guard, but here in my country that doesnt really makes a lot, its like almost $300 dollars per month, i make 600 up to 800 per month, by taking calls in a call center, he never went to college he only graduated highschool, im in law school right now… from the very beginning since i knew he didnt have a job or was making money he could spend, if i had money i would invite him out to dinner, or to the movies or whatever and it was me paying for it which i didnt mind, he is not the kind of men who buys flower, or invite u to the movies, or out, he rather visit me at home and watch a movie in netflix and thats it, we have made plans to go out, but none of them works out, something always happen, and the day it may happen, i say no, just because i think i will have to pay for the date..
like sometimes my friends invite me to some places to hang out and always let me know that i could invite him too, but i just dont… cz i know that he wont have money to pay for a single drink even tho he is currently working what he gets its not enough for him, cz he pays rent and i dont cz i still live with my folks, and he everyday buys food and dinner, but is not really a good feeling… and on top of this……. im late on my period, 10 days now, hoping is just that a simple delay…. hoping im not pregnant cz i dont know what i would do… dont get me wrong, he is a great guy,he cares and he loves me in his own way, but im sure he does, he always listens, and cares about me, no matter how intense or bitch i could be, or how do i look, every single time he has off work he is with me, but i just feel is not going to be enough in a future, and i just feel that now im tied up in some monotony.
i would really appreciate if there could be any advices in here for my situation…
just making sure i leave something clear, what i used to do at the beginning, to pay for the movies or the nights out, i stopped doing it 2 months after we were together.
my advice is to stop looking for advice somewhere else; instead, look inside yourself, but first ask yourself this and ponder on this: “What is love?”
Hi. Name’s Ray. I just wanted to give my opnion on this topic, cause today its such a touchy topic. Now this is just my view. Note that when I state my opnion, I will not put down anyone else for thier opnion. Everyone thinks differently and percieve things differently.
As I was going through the comments, the favored wieghed heavily in the belief that your spouse must be finacially stable in order to be worthy of love. Now this just ins’t true. This is a very selfish, hypocritical ,narrow-minded mentality. I will tell you why i think that.
Now one can argue that people need to be able to support themselves. That is true. However, that should not equate to the worth of a person. Your spouse is only human. Not a machine you can throw outnwhen it malfunctions. Or a credit card that ran out of money. Your spouse is not a dollar sign. You should love them for them, not what they have or what you can benefit from them. All humans, no matter what past or where they come from, what thier race, gender, social/econmic/political satus is, are worthy of love.
But thats my preogotive. Maybe I’m just too nice of a person despite my rough past.
i’m sensing the love man, and i completely agree with what you wrote. if only more women (and maybe even men) would think this way…. eh, oh well, it is what it is.
I’m a man, 36, living alone, physically attractive, relatively low-income, never married, trapped in precarious work (like huge swaths of the population) with minor debt, and no tangible assets. This entire topic literally stops me from spending any time attempting to date women. Simply being able to support myself as an individual, beyond the next paycheque or two, is more of a factor than being potentially able to support a partner/family/household. Moreover, I have in mind the concept of “poor + poor = a little better off”; where two low income people join resources and be happier overall. The poorest women I interact with seem to be okay with this concept however we as a couple would be such a mismatch that any life with her would raise constant suspicion and questions. Me, a chiseled, 6foot athletic guy with all his hair, married to a 5foot tall woman, obese with coke-bottle glasses, severe acne and speech impediment. Why is this a problem? There would be non-stop suspicion and weirdness in all social situations. “Are they together? Is this a drug deal? What’s going on?” “How do we talk to them? Do we do this or that for them?” or a potential business relationship goes sour: “What’s wrong with him? Why does he have a wife like that? I got a bad feeling”.
Basically, at this point, other than for sex, I ignore women, because I know any early steps in a relationship ends with a grimace on her part when she finds out I live in a basement. Equally so, I grimace learning about her pathetic corporate situation and emptiness, but that’s another story. Instead I relish my independence and all of my healthy male aggression and super powers goes toward: work, entrepreneurial efforts, food, fitness, self-healing, real sex when I have money, porn when I don’t have money, etc.
I take this “evil” maleness I have and I play the game of life. I choose where I direct my focus. I choose where I invest and battle. I’m forced off the beaten path because it’s crowded. So I have fun playing around in the wilderness, away from the herd. Some people might label this life as “MGTOW”. To be honest, I’ve traveled the world, been in orgies, tried all kinds of activities, done all kinds of careers and schooling. All that’s left now is I want to build a personal empire.
Literally speaking I have a plan underway, an entrepreneurial venture, completely separate from my precarious day work. It’s a multi-year effort, with 100’s of hours invested. A multi-billion-dollar market which exists, where I’m a middle man to 10,000 people already, all of which are using my software platform (for free). I have a path to scale up and actually monetize, however it’s still a few years away from this. Anyways, this timeline and huge risk/reward mentality is incompatible with women that just want a nicely package man tied with a red ribbon. Eventually if this pans out and I get rich, great, I can actually enter the marriage market, however I may just very well go wife-shopping overseas. If my entrepreneurial masterpiece, my baby, doesn’t make me money-rich, at least I know it’s improving the lives of scores of people, and perhaps I’ll just release it or operate it for free and be a benevolent steward, still going from paycheque to paycheque working a precarious day job.
In the end, I take some gleeful comfort in knowing one retirement option is a 9mm to the head, when I’m done and ready to transfer my energy and give back to the soil. If I have any power at all, it’s to decide when is “GAME OVER”.
hahaha! good stuff brother…don’t give up your hopes though…i’m sure there are soem good women out there, although, i’m also sure there are many wicked one’s…it’s a matter of luck i guess? or is it destiny? fuck if i know, but just dont give up your life over a horse i almost did, and i regret it.
ok, so here’s the deal: after reading this article and many comments, i feel obliged to share my personal experience on the matter at hand. Me, i’m 35 years old now, male, 5’6, 150 pounds, very attractive white skinned hispanic, well educated, witty, talented, and athletic guy with a big heart, loving, kind, and respectful to all people. haha, all that info was probably unnecessary..anyways here it goes; The Story: I was a 25 year old college student when i starting dating the girl that would be my girlfriend for the next 5 years – she was a 24 year old japanese college student in San Francisco on a student visa. I never had a lot of money, i depended on my college loans and part time work, and everything was fine – she seemed to be madly in love with me, as i definitely was was her – one could say that i was the happiest man alive. The problems started after she graduated from college. She left the north american continent and me for her home country of Japan where she quickly found a job selling medications to doctors. I think she earned somewhere around 35K to start. Meanwhile i still had a year to go before i graduated and was earning a solid 12.50 per hour working part time/24 hrs per week as security officer in a downtown San Francisco high rise. Only about six months after she started working as a professional (cock sucker…haha, jk) she started pointing out often – over the phone – that i was a college student, and it was clear that she was trying to make me feel inferior to her – trying to make me feel like i was a child, and she was an adult woman. This went on and only became worse after i failed to graduate the semester that i had planned on graduating. She started to complain and boast about how i was ‘nothing’ and she was a ‘professional’ (a professional whore…heh, again jk). She made it very clear that i was a burden to her and a shame. (mind you, she never supported me financially; despite my impoverished condition, i was always the one that paid for our dates when we were in college, and i supported myself financially without her help). Now that she was making ‘big money’ (which really wasnt even that much), it was very apparent that she thought herself all of a sudden to be ‘the hottest shit on the market.’ Now would be a good time to interject that she was actually not very attractive. In fact, when i first met her, i did think that she was ‘ugly,’ and i was a fit, athletic, smart, funny, loving, kind, and good looking guy. Long story short, society would have judged that i was way out of HER league, and she knew it, but i put myself out there for her and stood by her side regardless and showed her how to love and how to be loyal despite what ‘others’ may think. Yet, when she started making the money, while i was still a broke college student, she quickly forgot how i resisted what other people said or thought about my choices (about her: to be more clear, friends would say: “dude, she’s fucking ugly,” or “you can do way better than that” or strangers would simply look at us weird when they saw us holding hands in public, because we just did not make a good match in the eyes of the society (mainly because she was ugly as fuck compared to me! haha, i know this sounds bad, but hey, thats how it went down, and yet i stood by her, strong in my faith and my love for her, which grew every month). Eventually, about a year after she got hired in Japan, her ego became too big for me to fit inside her heart, and she dumped me dramatically and even with hatred in her words. Yes, she told me exactly why she was dumping me. She said that i was “too lazy and unmotivated for her” and that “she was tired of lying to her friends and co-workers about my profession” and that “she would only marry a man that made more money than her” and that “she was ashamed of me” and so and and so on and more and more shit like that. I was devastated and depressed for years, but now i know better than to think that i can hold a rattlesnake and not get bit. Lesson learned = stay away from venomous snakes…get a whore or jerk off. haha jk. 🙂 peace ya’ll much love… ADAMthe madman! p.s, i still love you bitch, but i would’nt get back with you…even if you begged me to…even if i was starving and did need your financial support, which by the way you never gave me, though you acted like you did.
Hi everyone! This article and the comments have been helpful and enlightening. I thought I’d share my story since I’m really kind of unsure how to move forward. My boyfriend who I’ve been with for almost two years makes about 60k doing something he loves and I make about three times that amount. I’m a lawyer and he has taken some post-Bach masters level classes. He is really good to me, he makes sure that I’m always taken care of, that I’ve eaten or that my laundry is done and super supportive in literally everything I do (for example, if I said I wanted to be an astronaut, he’d buy me a how to book and tell me I can do anything). He has no kids, his own home (which is a bit of a fixer upper), he’s 39 (I’m 29) handsome and well dressed and no debt. I love him very much and I’ve never ever met a kinder and more thoughtful person. I have two issues. First, I guess my worry is similar to that to others on this board, that I’ll be taking care of us and it scares me a little. What if I start hating my job or if I want to stay home with my kids if I have them? Should I ask him to consider maybe a higher paying job that we won’t fall flat if I want to step back from my income? Second, part of my worry about our relationship is this pressure from the professional world to marry rich and have husbands who are literally running the world and my guy just isn’t that. Anytime I even mention his profession I feel like I have to ad a caveat that he’s looking at this NGO or looking to get his Masters and go to this non profit. At these work functions it’s always a game to see who has taken the most lavish trip or visited the more interesting place and I’m wondering if it would just be easier to date someone in that world. Thanks for reading!
Hi Everyone,
I have been reading these posts because I am currently ending a 10 year relationship with a man who had a job when I met him but quickly lost his job, but refusing to go to work, after he and I moved in to the house I bought. He then proceeded to live on my dine for about 9 months. I was to0 stupid to ask him to leave. After 10 years of him basically doing the same thing, getting jobs, working for while and then quiting. I purchased a smaller more affordable house, sold the old house and moved without him. He is currently bothering me to return to our past relationship where he knew that all was secure because I would absolutely take care of the bills and he simply did not have to worry about anything, not even holding on to a job, I finally realized that this man is financially irresponsible and that I should have seen from the very beginning but I was in “love”. I have come to the realization that the only person who was in love in my relationship with him, was me!! He loved the lifestyle I was able to give him but I realized that after years of enduring his abusive temper, he liked to degrade me with his words, he did not love me, because if he had loved me, he would have taken some of the burden of supporting both of our lives away from me by getting a job and keeping it. I think he had issues with his mother and i do believe that he had some kind of subconscious need to passively humiliate me and one way he was doing it was by forcing me to support him when he decided to lose his job. It was nightmare that only got worse as I began to put the pieces together. Because I am a woman I still love him but I realize that i have been the only one with love. He lies to himself about what he did and I just feel pity that he cannot wake up to the reality of who he has become….he always states his age, and health as reasons for his problem holding jobs but he was only 49 when i met him and I helped him get healthier. But he always has a reason so when I simply look at his actions as opposed to his words, the truth blares out very loudly…he just want mom to take care of him. And I am tired of being Mom to this man. Also, a good source of support has been a book I recently read by David Deida called The Way Of The Superior Man. The author tell what happens to a man who will not grow up and own his manhold. This type of man is basically stuck wanting Mom to take care of him and really this type of relationship never will give a grown woman what she wants. It is a dead end, get out as soon as possible and don’t look back.
I’m broke as f! I had two children from a previous marriage that I had sole co of, I had a good job, remarried to a poor woman raised her child as my own, as well, I got hurt at work had a few surgeries, my injuries became a disability so something’s had to go, house paid for, new cars traded for older ones that were paid for as well, and she’s gone!! That’s been nearly a year ago, I have been and plan on being single the rest of my life, if women are that ungrateful and shallow Then by all means find that rich asshole if that’s what makes you happy. Morales are a thing of the past these days
I find several things in this article that go against what I have personally experienced as a poor woman. One, is that poor men who have good looks ARE given the same message as poor women, to marry up. Perhaps whoever wrote this article was not raised around poor and desperate to climb out of it, opportunists. This category of people will capitalize on anything they can to achieve success and being poor is a great motivator. So that is the first thing I found out very young, even poor boys did not want to “marry” ME. They wanted to sleep with me and marry someone from a better family. Rich boys were also groomed by parents, taught at a very young age to date girls from “good families”. What do you think “good family” translates to? I have run into problems my entire life because I came from a poor, mentally ill family. So I began telling people I was an orphan, thinking it would remove the stigma. It did, but it replaced it with an equally off putting label. If a man is not able to acquire the info he needs to make a sound judgement on who he considering marrying, he is going to pass on that marriage. I have used sexuality, I have refused sexual relations until a solid relationship, I have worked every angle..only to learn, for poor women, men still yield ALL the power. For poor men, they have to give up their testicles to marry up, but I know half a dozen who could care less about their testicles, they want money. So no matter what I read on here or anywhere about all this “pride” and “integrity” blah blah that people claim to have…I have YET to meet any poor person, and I’ve known thousands, who puts pride before opportunity. I do and you know what the result is? Being alone, FOREVER. All I’ve ever met in the poor culture are opportunistic men looking to marry/relate up. I was raised that women do NOT give their money to men. Women today, are out college’ing, out jobing, out earning and out doing men in every arena…they literally buy men, like pets, many whom are perfectly content to stay home and raise kids, like a woman. I still know several poor old guys, who ran through several marry ups, and are back living with their mothers or a new gf. Women always take these losers in. As long as their is that, a woman with integrity stands ZERO chance of ever finding a partner. If you disagree, are a single man, around 50, and want to prove me wrong, by all means, lets hear from you and how you are successful and married DOWN. Let’s hear from men who saved an American woman from a life at Burger King.
Further, lets hear from the “ostracized” men working for good causes who are shunned by a women at Burger King. These “poor” men are opportunists looking to marry UP. Marc Katz, lets hear about the woman he married. Was she a step down? He claims his wife will push him in a wheelchair…most women would. Its a fact, that women are many times more likely to stay with a sick man, than the other way around, MAny women find their husbands walk out on them in a health crisis. Men? Wanna speak up about this? If you married and your wife became paralyzed, unable to have sex, unable to contribute much but a SSDI check, would you stick around forever? That is what Katz is trying to say, marry someone who will. Well everyone “says” they will, but when the chips are down, its a fact that a man is more likely to leave a disabled woman than the other way around. Marc Katz got his cake and ate it too. What he doesnt say is that he would do the same for his wife.
As you can Imagine (by the mere fact that I am commenting on & was therefore reading this article) I am not the richest guy in the world.
That doesnt bother me though, as I feel a particular way about money vs self worth (because there where people living & eating & marrying looong before the Rothschilds invented money…), but I would like to think I am smart, I am okay looking I guess (I tend to garner the odd smile from a pretty girl on a good day), am ambitious in the sense that I would like to make my mark in history & change the world for the better (I do actively try to do this & am not just a “dreamer”) & I have a job.
Now before I delve into what will be both my analysis & indictment of the reality of the male female thing circa 2016… I want to put my response to this article into context. The context is my perception of the replies in the comments & what I have observed. It would seem that the women that find themselves dating “poor guys” who have responded where not so much dating “poor guys” as losers. And as a result, their view on a man with limited means is that of a leech & not of… a Man, with limited means.
Now dont get me wrong, Im not a mean person & I am about to back my species up here on why women need to rethink this love vs money thing, but let us separate the men from the boys… The men that got supported by their women & leaned on them & used them & sat infront of the tv & slouched & drank their money & drove their cars & whined & settled… those are the losers. The boys.
The Johns, Brians, Daniels… (and to a degree Ragnok & Adam & Messenger… Though these 3 are bitter & I dont exactly agree with their views 100%, but I understand how they can choose to see it that way) Those are the men.
Okay, back to point. It would seem that most women responding here seem to skirt responding to the above gentlemen in favour of responding to bashing the leeches. Why? Because as much as there are women who are willing to give so called “poor guys” a go… they are few & far between. In the cases of most of the ladies here, it is not so much by choice but by deception. And in the case where it is by choice, it is more by guilt. The ones who choose so called “poor guy” are probably content or dare I say… happy & will never find this article & comment (or if her & hubby are reading this, will not respond).
The thing is that, apart from the insults (which I disagree with guy. like jeez buddy lets breathe & respect each other…) it is actually true what Messenger said (with absolutely no tact & way, way too much gusto) we have lost you guys hey. We have lost a war we didnt know was being waged. Also I co sign Derivative on this.
Our society has been built up to value money above all else. As a result, you need it to survive. But even though that is not an entirely impossible task (survival), money has also been used to class us. Class us you say? Yes. Class us. What can you afford? “I can afford more therefore I am better than you” vibes. And so all the good stuff, the nice stuff, the luxurious stufff… is priced, to class.
But what does this have to do with the man you marry then? Well, apparently, everything. We as men used to hold true to the codes of chivalry & bushido & vied for our position atop the food chain with feats of valour, intellect, strength & courage. We mapped oceans & fought bears & built civilizations to impress the panties off our ample bosomed counterparts. Hell, we even killed each other for you (which, in hindsight… was just stupid). But this was not entirely different to how the rest of the animal kingdom goes about this male female thingy. Stand out with impressive skills & intellect, hone physical attributes to ensure health & safety & evolution & display depth of love in action.
Now this obviously would not ensure food on the table & a roof over ones head, but that is because the pursuit of living life is the pursuit of putting food on the table & a roof over the head & as such, it was a given that regardless of the man you chose, these would be his preoccupations when he was not with you. So women then chose the man they wanted & he preoccupied himself with providing for her. Everything seemed to be working out fine & we populated the world.
But some bright spark got the idea that having more than the next guy & controlling him was a good idea. And soon capitalism was born. And soon the world became imbalanced as the value of life became attached to how much currency you had access to. Soon this imbalance became wielded as power & before long the “I can afford more therefore I am better than you” status quo began taking hold. I could pay you to give me what you have. I could pay for someone to take what you have. I can pay to have decisions go my was. etc etc. And it wast long before that classing lead to the women of wealthier men being able to have nicer things than other women. And the allure of choosing a wealthier man over a better man was born.
Look, im sure it wasnt that simple, but capitalism lead our society to imbalance & you can see how it would start giving the fat, stinky, sneeky guy preoccupied with amassing wealth an advantage over the athletic, stinky, thoughtful guy preoccupied with writing poems about the beauty of women. After all… sneeky could pay thoughtful for his poem & give it to the women that thoughtful wrote it for. Lol!
But I digress. Lets get to the critique. You see, in my experience… even though women are not money grubbing whores… they have lost their way in the pursuit of feminism. I believe women are our equals & that the patriarchal society engendered by capitalism & bigotry was wrong… but I believe that the man is meant to be… the man. He is supposed to dominate the woman & she is supposed to submit to him. Sexual intercourse is the ultimate proof of that. But that is on a… physical level. We are more complex than we have been simplified into being by mass propaganda. The woman, as our equal, dominates us emotionally & we submit to her. And as a result we balance the equation & you realize why we are made to pair up. Why a man needs a woman to sate him & why a woman needs a man to protect her.
But what also gets lost in translation I think is that men are not really meant to be “the provider” more than we are meant to be “the hunter”. Remember we are omnivores & while we where hunting, women were gathering. I get the meat, you get the potatoes. You make the thatch, I build the house. We were designed to team up. Hence why it takes 2 humans (or creatures) to make a baby. Because procreation & coupling is a team effort… otherwise we would be asexual no?
Digressing still. Damnit… I think we have become to caught up in the big sale of affluence, that is designed to make us spend & make the makers of expensive things more affluent than us (and thus allow them to exercise their ideal that it makes them better than us, regardless of inbreeding & depravity), that we have lost the meaning of love. We have forgotten what it means to choose to claim another as your own. We have forgotten what it means to bind our fate to each other & to strive to make that joint fate the best it can be. We have forgotten that we want to be able to mix genes with this person. That we want to be the main thought in their minds. The reason they breathe. We have overcomplicated the simplicity of love to the point that we have tied it to money.
Why does it matter who makes tho most money if it is 1 household? Does the board look down on the department that makes less revenue because its market has less potential? No. They just calculate their earnings & report a singular profit & then distribute it. Does the Chairman of the board have to be the one that made the money? No. Does the lion have to bow before the lionesses because they killed the springbok? No. They hunt it, kill it & present it to him. And then give him some tale. Lol! King. But then again, if a threat presents itself, he is the one that steps up. Same as if the company is in trouble, the chairman takes the heat.
We have lost our way & the meaning of life & we are destroying ourselves because we desire trinkets & we want to seem better than the next person. Love wont pay the rent they say. True. The 2 people living in the house will.
I myself have been a victim of this sad reality. My 1st adult girlfriend was from a pretty well off family. I found this out probably 3 months into dating her. We dated for 8 months. Now, we met through a friend & we became friends as a result. She was pretty smart & witty & we clicked. Hung out alot & eventually fell in love with each other after falling into bed together a few times (or before). Now, at that stage I was working as a waiter as I had been pulled out of varsity that year when my parents split (like in chasm) so I was not sure what to do with my life & since mom was unemployed * I needed income, I became a waiter. Anyhow, as you can imagine my lady love (who was studying) was the entirety of my focus & i spent all my time with her. Would help her study. We would talk about the world. Copious amounts of earthshattering sex. Twas bliss. But I was not exactly on a specific direction & so when her friend introduced her to her brother (who was my age, the cfo of a pretty serious company & driving the aston martin I had told her I would one day have…) it was a bit of a problem, considering expectations & i guess her ambitions. But then again, i wasnt without ambition. Heck, i even would pay for our dates & petrol for her car which I wouldnt drive (not mine so…), bought her presents & strawberry cheese cakes & was the best boyfriend on earth. I mean i had her laughing, smiling, thinking & orgasming everyday… but she dumped me. At a birthday party I organized for her. I wonder why… I even thought (foolishly) that I needed to prove I loved her & stopped short of standing outside her window with a boombox playing “our song”. My friend eventually told me she had left me for another guy & explained how he knew him & he was well off blah blah blah. Shit happens right?
Later on I hooked up with a girl that had been after me for a while. We were friends, but I had always avoided hooking up specifically because people kept trying to cupid us. Im a rebel okay. Push me & I revolt. Lol! But I was not entirely un interested & would flirt with her alot over the years & we’d kiss at parties etc. Anyhow, family moved to the coast & i moved with em. But then I decided to get on my own 2 & wanted to move back to the city. Was between jobs because I moved provinces. She then told me to come up & I could crash at hers. I said no. She then bared her heart to me & confessed her love & told me how it wasnt just about helping me etc. I was moved (like in 1 tear rolling down the cheek Jerry Macguire moment) so I moved in with her & her roomate. Got a job soon after & decided to move out & get my own place because I didnt want to lean on her & plus pride & Im an introvert when Im not being the life of the party, so I like having me time. Eventually my roomate (who was a nightmare…) drove me up the wall & hers became all controlling & we got our own lil posher than we could afford apartment. Heaven on earth. Would have married her. Was my usual romantic, attentive self. Accept, since we lived together, I no longer had to go home to play PS or watch sport, I just sat on the couch in the lounge. Then it bacame “you dont pay attention to me” even though we chatted daily & all night & had the best sex I have ever had, daily. But that was normal I think, the arguing. Our flashpoint? She was a spender. She also had well off folks, so she had gotten used to a certain lifestyle as a kid. Now, as an adult, she expected to have the same lifestyle afforded by her bank exec dad (take out everyday, shopping sprees, parties) & I, having grown up the opposite was more pragmatic. Wasnt a grich, just would think cost. This irritated her. As much as taking out loans irritated me (& killed my credit) Now, as a rebel, I dont take shit. So when I had to take a stand against my racist boss, I did & resigned, inspiring 15 people to walk out with me (by my actions, not by persuading them to leave). When I told the GF she flipped. Money was tight with her spending & the loans & she point blank told me that she couldnt be with me anymore if I wasnt working. I tried to persuade her that it was neccessary & I would find a way around it. She didnt care. Cut off sex. Stopped talking to me. Began going out fridays with her single friends. Eventually I moved out…
My last 2 went along similar veigns, accept I was not between jobs. I even had my own place & stuff. But 1 decided to sleep with 5 guys at a party because “she was drunk” & they paid her & the other (most recent) decided to go back to baby dadd because he wanted to buy her a new car.
My point here is that, my experience is that money matters to women. Do they care if you are smart & handsome & loving & romantic & desire them & a good lover & a man of honour & character & that you will potentially change the world? No. They care how much money “You” have. Not how much money “We” have. They dont want to live within their means, they want to live with means. Im not saying that is a bad thing. But I think there is something to be said for the young couple that makes their fortune together. Trust & respect & memories & a life is built. What kind of trust do you have in a man that you dont know how he made his money? Did anyone have to ie for him to get this money? Are you okay with that? What kind of respect is built off of a relationship designed like a business transaction with a… a whore? You provide him with sex & he pays for your lifestyle? Does it matter that your memories are of lies & abuse & other women etc?
I think women need to reassess their priorities. And though you might think Im bitter too or its just my perspective as a “poor guy”… I think marrying a man you love & believe in can only lead to happiness, because every man is waiting for his 1 oppertunity & if he has someone who loves him, supports him & depends on him, he will move mountains (we invented C4…) & travel too the moon & back for you. As we pointed out in the beginning… we are even willing to die for you (listen to Bryan Adams…)
So dont be so quick to judge us & box us & dismiss us. After all, if it wasnt for us, the rich guys wouldnt be rich enough to buy you.
Lastly, RG, you just havent been looking at the right guys. “Poor” is a state of mind.” Look at the mans ambitions, but also his charachter. An honorable wants nothing from you but you. You having a job is a bonus. (that job coming with free take aways is a happy accident.
I hpoe you all reply, i think its time we stopped scirting around the topic & discussed why you choose money over love, without comparing us to leeches…
I believe in traditional roles and the fact that they have value, there is a purpose and they have worked since the beginning of time. Women are natural nurturers and should be raising their children if they have any. Men are physically stronger and should be providers. For those of you who buy into Feminism, Gloria Steinem worked for the CIA and Feminism was a deliberate social engineering of society that no one benefitted from but the Govt. Dont’ believe me, research it. It actually pitted the genders against one another and created gender confusion. Women are actually worse off today than when my grandmother raised her children. I have two degrees and am a single parent, have several properties and believe me when I say I clawed my way there. Sorry at this stage in the game I’m not playing man whisperer. I work with many college educated women and you know what the prize is that they all dream about…… that their husband rise through the ranks in their jobs and increase their salaries so they can quit their jobs and raise their children, surprise, surprise. If a guy doesn’t have the motivation to have his priorities in order and something to show for it, then he is not a candidate. Building a life is much easier without carrying dead weight. I think men today, need to increase their testosterone levels, and I’m not joking. Men today have about half the testosterone that men in my grandfathers day had and it shows. This is due to pollutants and other factors. Their assertiveness is lacking for the most part. Women have become highly motivated because they have been left holding the bag in broken marriages and out of necessity in providing for their children have become “The Man” So Gloria Steinem was succesful in not only destroying the family unit but turning genders upside down and reversing their true roles and nature. Very sad state of affairs. Men need to go back to being men and women need to do the same. We are not only suffering because of it but our children are incurring the most damage due to social engineering.
That’s all well and good. But I don’t see you and other women like you ready to jump on Gloria Steinhem in the defense of men and those gender stereotypes. Of course not because right now, you’re benefiting from the privileges granted to you by feminism and the old, traditional value system.
ffs I thought in marriage you take a vow to love someone for rich or poor? some people can’t afford to go to school without some form of help, and that’s if they can get some. Let’s just kill all the undesirables then instead of just letting them suffer since if they can’t get it together or”grow up” since they weren’t offered the same opportunities in life or given the same tools to work with, because I know for a fucking fact if I can’t find someone who loves me when I was at my lowest an still trying why they fuck would I want someone who could only love me at my best.
Now that the gender pay balance is evening up we have to be less traditional about who ought to be the breadwinner, and be rid of this idea that a woman does not need to contribute financially, but the man always must.
I’m 26 years old, privileged (no debt thanks to parental support through college) and on the path to earn a high salary later. My boyfriend is 33, with no higher education, no job and significant debts. With this in mind he has begun job-hunting in earnest, has met with debt specialists to solve his situation, and is trying to turn his life around with our joint future in mind. As long as he supports me emotionally, intellectually, and puts in an extra ‘work shift’ around the house, I am happy to make the financial contribution. In fact, as a career-minded woman, I feel quite liberated that I might be able to pursue my dream career while he takes care of everything else (home, family, etc).
The world is changing, and our aspirations have to change with it. Women *will* sometimes be the higher earners in a family. What’s important to me is that if the man can’t contribute money, he should be accepting of that and find other ways to support the relationship. And as long as I see my man doing his best, then I am content.
Thank you, Helen for being a voice of reason. I think it’s really hard for women to give up being treated like princesses. It would be hard for me.
My goodness ,Reading all these comments, wooow!! My goodness ..!!! Never and ever did I realise that there is Such a Way way..way..way..Big.. Big.. Big, unexpected and really …really surprising Problems between male and female, or wife and husband. My goosh.. !!Wats wrong with all these ppl ,is it a Big Big lie,Exaggeration..??? Wats wrong with this World..?? Is it reliable?,true/false,fake /real??? I didn’t know..BUT One thing that I know —It is not encouraging ..not encourage at all ,..Be it ,a male or female to marriage, Be it Rich/Poor…its never encouraging them Marriage—–BUT UNFORTUNATELY man cannot live without women nor women without man by law of nature..
SURELY A FAITHFUL HUSBAND/WIFE AND A HAPPY FAMILY ARE SURELY AND TRUELY A PRECIOUS
GIFTS AND BLESSINGS FROM GOD…!!!!!!!!!
Hi
I live in the Uk and I’m originally from Europe.
I left everything to come here and Live with the mother of my child.
I learn a new language, start my life from scratch and I am a musician (yes nobody is perfect).
She left me because I didn’t bring enough money. I have been here since three years and I found a work after two months. I had low incomes first and I manage to have more and more work, because I’m dedicated and energetic.
I work hard, I had a basic salary but I was able to contribute to the bills. She bought a property, I did a lot of work in it and hard work.
I am definitely not a middle class man. I start to have recognition for what I’m doing here and now my involes are enough to let me live a bit and not counting every penny each month.
I woke up every morning with the wish of doing the right thing and assuming my choices like an adult. I choose to be a musician and I’m proud of what I’m doing and I work hard for it. Yes being a musician is hard but also wonderful because I love my work (teaching, playing gigs, travelling sometimes for work,…).
My ex, she has been raised in a middle class family with good incomes and good money.
Her step dad spoiled her. When you make a choice, whatever that choice is, you have positive stuff coming from it but also responsability.
Her step dad assume all the responsability for her.
For exemple, having children is wonderful but also includes thar you have to wake up at night and look after them even if you work the next day.
She wanted us to have a dog, I agree and I finish looking after that dog because it aws to hard for her to look after the doggy.
Since we broke up I have my house, I look after my daughter and the dog. They have all they need.
I teach her discipline and that if you want something in your life you should work hard for it and don’t listen the little voice in your head saying that you will never achieve it. I give her a lot of love and I try to make our (my daughter and I) house as safe and cosy as possible for her.
My ex have a better salary, a better job and a better education.
When she left me I thought that I was a failure as a dad, as a man because I didn’t had a salary big enough.
I realise now that the real adult here is me. My daughter loves me and is really really happy to come to my place because I really take time to look after her.
I do what I have to do. Children doesn’t need money, they need love and structure. If you give them that then they are happy. My ex can’t assume her more than two days on her own without calling her parents for help.
She bought an old house and now that I’m away there is no work being done in her house.
My mom was a single mom and she bought an old house and did all the work on her own, mike a real adult choosing thing and doesn’t wait for someone to do the job for her !
For me assuming my choices is the fact that I choose to be a musician for exemple, it is hard but I know that I love my work and I’m really committed to it. I could have choosen a job for security and money but maybe I would have find it boring !
There is no perfect choice in life. Just the choice you make and you have to assume each of them because that’s what responsable adult does.
By choosing a man because he has a good salary, is basically not respecting yourself. You want a family ? Then work for it with your partner but don’t expect him to bring everything for you because you don’t build a family that way, you build a parasite relationship.
Honestly, I don’t care if a woman have a bigger salary than mine, I don’t care if a woman have a lower salary than mine, what I’m looking for is a woman not an adulte body with a teenager mind !
When we say “be a man” to a man we can say the same to a woman “be a woman” !
For me a woman who look for a man to look after her family is not a woman but a spoiled teenager.
What, I need in my life is a person who is driven by a goal in her life.
A person who assume what she has to assume, responsability included.
A couple is a partnership, and love is the center of it.
I want a woman that I can rely on and vice versa.
I’m independant and I don’t need anybody to juge me about my choices, and if someone do, I don’t even pay attention to it. I do what I want with my life.
If a woman want to share my life then I will not lie on what I am, and the last thing I want is her trying to change me. The same with me, the next person who will share my life I will respect her and love her enough to not trying to change her !
Now for my daughter, I want to teach her to be independant, to be a real woman and not a little princess who have to find a middle class husband with a good situation.
A partner, a lover, is someone completing your life not building it for you or this is, for me a kind of parasite.
I don’t say that money is not important, you need money to pay your bills and being able to live. What you don’t need is a person building herself threw you or vice versa.
Also, if my partner loose her job and struggle to find an other one but she fight for it then I can’t see the problem of passing by a hard time and fight for it. I expect the same from her and if she leave me because I have a knee down and I’m fighting hard for getting up, then it is not her fault, she probably has been raised to be a coward and spoiled little girl and I should have seen that I was wasting my time with a teenager who will evet achieve anything in her life.
A woman, my partner, the person I want to build a family with, need to be the kind of person that I know, would be able to carry on if something happened to me !
Not a little princess who is going to be lost and would have to find quickly an other man with money to take care of her family.
It is nice to talk about what a girl need from a man but let’s talk about what a man need from a woman…
Sorry I just realised that my comment is full of mistakes.
I have same problem, just got engaged after 2 years of dating, but the only way I’m unsure about marrying him is from the financial aspect. I grew up in a family that owns many real estate properties, and his family and him have been renting and are still renting, even though they had the chance to get their own place, but they couldn’t because of overspending on opulent travels and high end lifestyle. What worries me is that he has the same mindset as his family, just to live a nice life, not think about tomorrow and spend beyond your means. So after he graduated from college, he started working and got fired from two jobs in span of half of year and this third job is uncertain whether he’ll be able to keep it. There is a problem even with the money he makes because he gets this huge credit card bills that basically wipe off all of his earnings. I talked to him about it that if he wants us to move together, he has to change his habits. He always promoses, but he never does. I do love him and I supported him along the road, and he is also very caring and loving, and even though I didn’t want to go, he bought an expensive trip to Vegas, and I said it’s a big expense, not to do it, because that is not what I expect of him. But he did it and ignored once again how important it is to get rid of spending habits for our relationship to advance. My family likes him but they also disapprove of his living beyond his means. I would definitely move in with him if he was more disciplined with spending habits and if he was able to commit to actually start saving for a future together. But the simple fact that he is financially irresponsible and that he got fired twice in six months makes me feel like I want to run away and not look back. So my mind is telling me leave him and my heart is saying don’t, don’t be cruel, give him a chance, he’ll change once we start living together. Never been more frustrated! 😑
I originally met my boyfriend 3yrs ago. We started out as friends. He seemed like a very, nice guy. If I was having a bad day he would help me forget about whatever was bothering me. I wasn’t looking to be involved but some time went by and we decided to give dating a try. I did notice as time went by he may have stretch the truth or even lied about things going on his life, such as having his own business to having a car, and his own house. I thing at the time he was working, lied about having a car and then found out he was living at his God mother’s house. He eventually started working security at a hospital. When we would spend time together I had to be the one to pick him up and drop him back off. Before he starting working I was the one buying food for us, we didn’t go anywhere just watch t.v. at my place. Then there were a few times would we get to my place and something would happen and I would have to take him back to the place where he stayed due to his extended family always needing him. I even drove him to his job a few times and he does not stay close to me nor does he work close to where I stay. I decided to end it due to me feeling like his family was to needed and I would be like an after thought, and I too had some personal issues I needed to tend to. We kept in touch and decided to remain friends. Last year he informed me that he was going to think about himself first and make a move out of the state we live in and a career change. I was happy for him, that he was finally trying to do something. We started back chatting more he started coming back over to my place to hang out with me. He did get a car, but we never have gone anywhere such as movies, etc. He has stopped and grabbed Chinese food or a pizza here and there. His recent birthday I cooked dinner for him and got him some gifts. He let me know he loved me had always, actually he is in love with me. I had never stop having feelings for him and let him know that I wanted to be with him. He doesn’t stick with what he says he’s going to do, he had me thinking he was going to take me on a trip for my birthday and he ended up loaning the money for the trip to his sister. He had left to start his paid training for new job and ended up coming back the story he gave as to why he came back doesn’t sound right. He ended up back here, he then says he has to wait a few months to go back, mean while he decided to try to get his old job back, which is taking a little time. I then get into a car accident to where I’m injured and didn’t have a car. In the midst of this he was not as supportive as I would have like him to be. He took me around a little to look for a car but I had to put gas in the car cause he was back to work, I also was buying food. Then he started acting distance a little come to find out he was mad because he had loan the money I had talked about earlier to a family member and didn’t have the money for his car/insurance payment. At last minute he was able to scrounge up have of the money between his parents and I let him borrow a little over a couple of hundred from me. Now mind you I’m out on short term disability so I’m only getting 75% of my pay, dealing with a car accident and pain I’m enduring because of it but I still managed to worry about him and his car situation. We don’t spend that much time together, nor do we really talk on the phone a lot. There is always a situation with him especially financially and he still hasn’t paid me all of my money back. When things go wrong for him he shuts down and says I guess I’ll go to sleep because there is nothing else to do. I’m tired of this situation and it’s getting old. He doesn’t have his own place, can barely keep up with his car payments. I don’t feel as if I’m in a relationship. I’m trying to stick it in with him but this is not the life I want to live and when and will he ever get his act together? By the way he’s 50yrs old.
I date a man for who he is, for instance, responsible, good judgement, loving, fair, honest and all the rest. I don’t care how much they make for a living as long as they have legally earned it. I find the above traits will always be there if genuine where income, investments and all the rest can disappear in a heart beat for whatever reason. All of us want to feel secure in life be it our income or relationships. To me relationship security means someone who is steady, there when times are hard, ducks in a row that can make things happen when they should how they should. I have been with the kind no one should be with who are broke. However he wasn’t just broke he turned out to be a user I couldn’t get out of my life without using the law but that’s not what were looking at here. However once someone has had this happen I think some could have second thoughts about dating someone with less income until they know who they are, what their priorities in life are and so on. It slowed me down on how fast I become seriously involved but it didn’t keep me from dating men who own nothing as long as their trying to get on there feet and I mean their trying not them wanting me to do it for them. Men without a lot of $ seem to try harder in some very sweet ways that don’t cost a red cent and if their genuinely good men or women who cares how much they are financially worth? As long as things stay balanced with the lower income partner not taking undo advantage of the higher income partner I don’t see dating someone who is not financially well off a problem be it man or woman. Money doesn’t keep me warm at night or make my heart soar with a kind act but a GOOD man can. I would never trade a good man for $$$ because in my lifetime I have found them to be rare and therefore worth a fortune in their own right. So those out there that are broke and worried about never finding anyone don’t be. You just haven’t meant the right one yet. Being broke doesn’t mean you shouldn’t still have your own list of things you want in your mate so make out your list and starting watching for her/him. They will show up when you least expect it.
The keyword is not BROKE. It is HE. Men are worthless ape-things and never worth your time, or money. Except when he spends all his time at work, and you never have to deal with him, and he pays all your bills.
Feminist detected
I married a guy w no money but he did work, just didnt get paid. It was never a problem. I said: you earn more and I get more. But then we got kids and he refused to take just a dumb job. So now I still help him out while I’m on the poverty border myself and my dad helps me. No problem except why on earth does he marry a wife who is too freakin lazy to work and wants to be a housewife? Now I can pay for mrs too who always eats and wears fancy clothes. And I found a guy w no job whos been unemployed for 10 years, now on benefits for back problems. Very sorry for you but I cant pay the whole world. Bye! You all go take a job yourselves. I’m gonna eat now myself. Ive eaten bread for the last 10 years and walk around in clothes second hand from others. Sick and tired of it. If a man or woman doesnt work they just shouldnt marry or find some filthy rich partner.
Interesting article… All I can say is that a person is a product of external and internal factors and, in my opinion, internal far outweighs whatever external factors are apparent. Don’t focus on the superficial, but on the internal, what really drives a person, in this case, a man, etc. etc.
Example, I was broke when I dated and then married my wife. We got along on her new teacher salary of about $30,000/year and just only on that, we had two kids and supported the whole household for 3 years into the marriage. However, I am a very ambitious and driven man, had in fact gained admission to medical school in my late 20’s, but dropped out after two years, and she met me in my 30’s while I was figuring out what to do with my financial life… etc. etc.
Well, we are now 4 years into marriage and I have retrained myself into a career where I make 5 times more than she ever made and she gets to stay home and take care of the kids, etc, etc.
She knew this about me, about my admission to medical school and dropping out, and on the basis of the internal factors which drove me, in the past, to get into medical school, so calculated that I was not much of a risk at all even though I was broke and continued to be so for the first three years of our marriage.
Of course, not all men can gain admission to medical school or retrain themselves into a high paying career, I am not naive. However, if he is otherwise a good person, I mean a genuinely good person, and is making some money, then it can work if the woman values internal factors more than external, etc. etc.
This blog/article is so depressing to me, a struggling, 63 year old attorney, who just wants to be in a truly loving relationship. Got good health, looks and personality (so I’m told). But having been a victim of Madoff and a very poor market as a divorce lawyer in So. FL, it has been a constant struggle. I may have to work till the day I die but I definitely don’t want to be anyone’s burdon. Even looking at a career change which promises to be better but will still have to work. I’m not the only one who has been screwed by the economy of the past 12-15 years. Do I have to die alone, not enjoying a love for whatever amount of time left? Very, very sad.
I am a 41-year-old mother of two (15&5 *yes, same father) Since my divorce 5 years ago, I have built a VERY modest life for me and my kids with my income and child support. I do my best to save and plan so budgeting is not optional. For the last 3 ½ years I’ve been dating a “starving artist.” He is very loving, attentive, fun and adores my kids. This same man has had 6 jobs, moved three times, rarely even has money to feed himself (let alone the son he rarely sees), has a lot of debt and spends frivolously whenever he has money in his pocket. Not to mention is still chasing the dream of fame and rarely home consistently enough to build any kind of stable income. Within our first year, he wanted us to move into together, get married and share a life. I cannot, in good conscious, do that knowing that ultimately what I have seen leads me to believe he would, in fact, make my financial situation worse. I cannot risk the wellbeing of my children for love of a man. However, I do love him fiercely. I wish we could build a life together, which is why I am constantly making excuses why I should wait a little longer to see if he gets his life together. Even my teenage son has called him “loser.”
Please don’t label all women as bad. I don’t need a sugar daddy but I can’t afford to be a sugar momma… I’m trying to do what is best from my children. And I continue to date him and beg him to get his life together so we can build something long term… although, at this point, I feel a bit foolish.
He isn’t going to change, so… you have to make a decision.
A lot of men here seem to think a woman is a gold digger if she works and supports herself and doesn’t want to contribute to supporting a man who can’t support himself. If the shoe was on the other foot, even if these men suddenly got a good job, I doubt many of them would suddenly start spending much on the woman who was spending on them, when they had nothing. Whether it’s a man or woman, you should only invest in someone if the investment is mutual and you are both getting something out of it. Only a con artist would say that one person should give without expecting anything in return. There is nothing wrong with expecting return on investment. A man who will never work (or never earn enough to support himself even if he does) is a bad investment. I am not suggesting the woman shouldn’t contribute or should leech off of the man, either. The other part of the equation is, for these men depending on women, if she leaves you may have a difficult time finding another woman to support you and will have to learn to be self sufficient, even if that isn’t what you want.
I am a 50 year old woman and have my career, my own home, my own car, have worked my ass off since I was 12 years old. I was married twice and both times, I made more than my husbands. I brought home the bacon and fried it up in the pan. After the 2nd marriage failed I decided to never marry again. I ended up dating a guy that was extremely wealthy. My neighbors called him Porche guy. He spoiled me. He never gave me a dime toward any house hold expense, i would never ask. But we went 1st class and VIP everywhere we went. It was lovely but I really could care less about all that. In fact when I found out how much money he spent on Meet and greet tickets to Kiss, my all time favorite band, it made me sick because it was easily 3 months mortgage payments! Ridiculous. But he said he did it for me and knew how much I cherish the experience and I still do. I loved him for who he was, we could have a quiet weekend where I cooked and ordered delivery and had a marvelous time. Sadly, he broke my heart and I swore off men. I decided it was time for me to learn about other cultures and countries and I’ve taken up traveling at least once a year to a new country. I go solo and love it!! After always putting children and husband’s 1st, I’m doing this for me and I don’t feel selfish at all. Let’s move into the current and why I’m divulging all this boring stuff. 3 years ago my girlfriends took me to my favorite beach for my birthday. I met a guy, didn’t want anything to do with him at 1st. It was my birthday and I was with my girlfriends. However all day in the sun and after many drinks and shots later, he became more… intriguing. I had my 1st one night stand, or so I thought. It was the best sex, erotic and passionate I had ever experienced but I really didn’t expect to hear from him again. 3 months later, he popped into my head and as I was packing a beach bag to go to my beach, he called. The chemistry we have when we are together is undeniable and every time we are together, we have so much fun. But I thought of him as my friend with benefits. I have never cared that he drives a junker as he calls it or lives in a teeny tiny rental on the beach, or that he takes off jobs to pay his bills. I listen as he tells me that he was once rich and shows me his awards in sales, pictures of when he had money and titles, and how his ex wife was an addict and sunk his fortune into her recovery and then had to sink more into attorney fees to clear his name when she came up missing. I know him. I know his parents, his friends. He’s an outstanding guy. He’s just given up on working corporate America… or any of his ambitions for that matter. I’ve never once looked down on him or thought less of him as a man or person because of his current situation. For the past 2 months he has made it clear that he wants a relationship with me. He’s taken jobs “across the pond”, aka inland so he can stay at my house during the week and I work extra so I can stay with him on the weekends. He came to my house Valentine’s day with food and flowers and made me dinner. It’s been lovely. Here’s why I’m writing all this boring stuff out, because I’m baffled. This past weekend, I’m staying at his place and Saturday we hung out with his BF and his new girlfriend. She drove us all nuts with her constant neediness, whining, and endless self absorbed me me me me, but that’s beside the point. Sunday morning, I let him drive my car to pick them up and we go to have brunch at a local beach restaurant. On the short ride she has to question what year is my car, it’s so nice, what do i do, did I marry well, what kind of house did i own, etc etc. The little like I had for her the night before was gone. I found her to be an obnoxious, materialistic, self absorbed, mindless twit! It was all I could do to not call her out, but I knew they were planning on going out on my guys boat with us so I sucked it in. We get seated and my guy gets calls for work and leaves the table several times to go outside to take the calls, each time showing me the calls and explaining who they are. I don’t ccare, you got to to what you got to do. But i do care that he is leaving me with these two. Ugh. She has mortified me with her high and mighty behaviour with the entire staff of the restaurant, demanding new silverware a special coffee pot just for her not once but 3 times, she had to leave and go across the street to creamer cause she didn’t like theirs, oh and the best was to complain to everyone that a couple that came in after is got served before us. God forbid.
So in comes my guy right after were served and we share our delicious meal. She shuts up long enough to eat and moan loudly on how great it was. I couldn’t take it anymore and excused myself to go outside and have a very well deserved cigarette. I take 1 puff and he comes outside and accused me of leaving at perfect timing when the check gets there, i make more money than him so i can pay for his beer for the boat. He wants an 18 pack and goes back inside. Are you kidding me right now?? First time we have ever talked or questioned money. I was so upset that i almost got in my car and left them all. The guys took forever to pay the bill inside, leaving me with this bat shit crazy woman and my mind whirling in circles. I didn’t want to create a scene in front of them so when he came out to open the door to my own car, I whispered in his ear, “I didn’t leave on perfect timing, I needed a cigarette from bat shit and you hurt my feelings ”
I won’t go into the rest of the day. It was a great day on the water and I can ignore any negativity when I’m on a boat. However, his words “perfect timing, leave when we get the bill, you make more money than me so you can buy my 18 pack of beer” resonates in my mind.
Am I wrong for feeling completely disrespected and unappreciated? Am I wrong for feeling for the first time he is beneath me and should just cut him off? I need an unbiased opinion on what to do here. Because I feel hurt and I didn’t do anything wrong in my opinion. Oh and by the way I did pay for his 18-pack of beer and our dinner for the night even though he cooked. Any help would be appreciated. Because I’m confused.
You sound too smart for him. I think you would feel dragged down.
So what do you do when you are in LOVE with a broke man? I got divorced 4 years ago to a man that was a wonderful supporter and father, but our communication wasn’t good. When he would get angry, he would sulk, and not speak to me. He is the one who filed for divorce. I met someone online and we started dating and have been dating for 3 years. I’ve been struggling financially myself, going through a string of bad jobs, etc., but he is unemployable. He’s overweight, middle aged (like me!) but no law firm will hire him. So he struggles putting Craigs List ads up for services. I have even lent him money. We can barely go anywhere because it’s either ME paying, or splitting it when he has money.
I know this all sounds bad, but he is the MOST EMOTIONALLY SUPPORTIVE and genuinely loving person I’ve ever had in my life! If he could, he truly would do anything for me.
But he’s also a slob, and realistically, I don’t want to struggle the rest of my life at this point. I’m 58.
The thought of never seeing him again really is depressing. I remember our picnics by the lake (cheap food), sitting on park benches just talking. We have great conversations.
I don’t know what to do. Other guys are interested in me, but … I’m in a quandary.
Sorry, I didn’t clarify. He isn’t just “overweight.” He is obese. I have tried to encourage him to eat more healthy. He eats like he used to when he was younger and an athlete. But he hurt his ankle, had a bad marriage, and it all went down from there. He has a serious back problem and can barely even take a walk with me.
Am I being shallow for wanting a NORMAL RELATIONSHIP?? Where people go out and do things, and take walks, etc?
I love him though, so much.
By reading all the above posts I am totally confused. I will share my own unique life experience and now at age 40 I perfectly believe that all of our experiences are so designed by god to teach us humility and compassion. OK now coming to the point, I was very ambitious from childhood as I can be and I had lot of maturity way beyond my years. I started earning a very good salary at the age of 23 and never looked back. At this age I have 2 cars, have multiple flats which I have rented,high cost land, gold, very good investment. Ok now I will write about my personal life. I was a very kind and shy guy from my childhood and my mother was the meanest woman any body can experience in his whole life. I had no sister and since I was very shy and sensitive and due to my domineering mother I could not talk with any girl in my growing up year. So by age 25 I was totally feeling shallow inside although I was earning a lot. I was thinking why although looking handsome and financially independent I was not getting any girl. Now I can realize,I was very fearful to invite any girl to my life then. Also I had my own imagination how my wife would be. She should be smart, beautiful, tall, well educated and earning etc as one 25 year male could imagine. Now at the age of 28 some sudden event happened and totally changed my life and perception. Ok it so happened a person joined in my company and gradually we became very thick friend. Since we both were bachelor we had hired a maid who can cook for us and clean our houses. Let me tell you the background of my friend. He was from very poor background and having 3 sisters and 1 brother. He was the only person who by his own hard work and government study scholarship had earned a good education and got the offer in our company. Ok one day her sister came along to his brother’s house. She was a village girl, not much educated nor so much beautiful. Why she came from her village because somebody was stalking her in the village. For the first time she had stepped out from her village and come to the city. She had not known any other languages except her mother tongue and luckily I had known her mother tongue. It so happened in due course of time that I was taking that girl to hotel and different places behind my bike to kill her boredom. But never I had thought initially that the girl was my beloved. But one thing for sure that girl had a very compassionate heart and she was very smart in all practical matters but very naïve in modern artificial give and take love story. She was having no alter ego as her parents were very loving and they never had the money and education to develop the ego. Ok for me I was a free minded and gentle ego although I had my own ego. Seeing my outer personality and also I was a handsome guy the girl fell for me. The girl assumed that I was loving her as I was taking her to several places. For my part subconsciously I was loving her as a person as she was very open hearted, jolly and fulfilling my want of motherly love in my childhood. One day she proposed me and I was torn between my mind and heart. My heart never wanting to leave her and my mind strictly instructing me to ignore as she is not a marriage material as per my ego standard. I kept quiet and finally said we can be friends and I have no such feeling. She said ok. But time passed away and I don’t know when I became much closer to her and we have our sex and for the first time I knew what is manhood at the age of 28. Ok but still my mind was very dominant upon my heart and I could not agree to marry her despite knowing that my future personal life will be very good and I had never any doubt of my own financial capabilities. Ok one day her brother came to know about our love. Since he was searching a suitable groom for her sister and already found one ( I know that person and he is a very good guy with very less ego and also having a good income). Actually that person was few blocks away from me and he was the friend of the girls brother. The girl was so innocent lovely and attractive (not super hot as per my ego standard) that any good hearted person will fall for her. Ok it so happened that the girl was madly in love with me( Here madly means she can die for me if situation demands as she does not have any race of egoistic calculative mind) and the other person is in deeply love with her and can do anything for her just after friendship for few days.For me I am as usual confused by mind and heart. It so happened that now all the 4 characters of this drama (me, my friend, sister of the friend and the friend of my friend) all came to know about this messy affair when the other person asked the girl’s hand in marriage to his brother. For her brother it is gift sent from god as the other person is a good person with out ego and also good income. When he asked her sister she refused straight and told she would like to marry me. For her brother there is no option left than just to ask me whether I would marry. I definitely did not say anything in concrete term. Her brother was not definitely in right mood as I hanged the things for 4/5 months and the other person was very eager to marry the girl and the girl is not ready to marry. In my part I was trying to thoroughly examine my intents as I was not in a mood to do any favour to the girl as that might destroy our long term relationship. We were still meeting as friend and she also agreed that she would leave me happily if I could not make up mind to marry her. I also suggested her why she is not marrying the other person as he is more a good person than me and earns equal to me.One day she told me that she is returning to her village forever and had a quarrel with her brother over the marriage to the other person. That day for the first time in life I cried imagining that I would never meet her again and my heart triumphed over my mind. Instantly my egoistic mind subsided. It was feeling like saving my princess from the demon’s clutch(demon was my own mind). It was around 11 pm in night and I told her tomorrow we are going to marry before I change my lizard my mind and my heart will guide me always in future. The very next day we went and married in a court and visited religious places. After I year we did the social marriage. Now I have 1 beautiful son and daughter and I am earning very good amount. Still me wife treat me like a prince and still madly in love. Only work I do is go to offce for 5 days and work for 40 hours. Last 10 years I have not done any household work as my wife is so energetic and she will never allow me to do any household chore. I often asked why you are so dedicated after so many years. I mean you can just sit and relax and I can keep a maid. It is not that she is saving money as she does lot of charity in her village. She says she does household things for me and children out of love. She is so sensitive about me that if I touch my head while thinking some thing she will come to me and ask whether I have a headache. I have some minor diseases as I am forty now and everyday she will give me medicine without forgetting. She also make me walk everyday 5 km by walking alongside with me and that is our rewinding time. Now for me whether I have completely won over mind and become a egoless compassionate person after 10 years staying with my adorable wife. No still time to time artificial comparison come to mind regarding education/ earning of my partner. When I was young and married I was feeling shameful to introduce my wife to colleagues in the party and after party I was feeling depressed. Now after so many years I learned gradually that in the end only love matters. Those who suffer for the sake of love they win at the end and who chase the mirage do so for the rest of life and after life.
Note- I am not a saint as I do not know what would have been my realization if I had not been lucky to earn much money.
Do what is RIGHT for you and what makes YOU happy. If you feel you are being dragged down, then make changes. If you’re good with a man who can’t hold a job, so be it.
True and also to be honest
Ugly woman are never in demand for man. If you are attractive you can be poor, but if you are ugly you won`t be in the same shoes.
So it`s both ways game.
Wow, a ton of comments from a bunch of indignant hypocrites. You can just tell from the comments which men would watch a video of a hot chick ignoring a guy until he walks to his lambom these guys would be THE first to scream Golddigger. Yet they want to throw words around like love as if LOVE even exists upon meeting a person. You guys are making loaded questions like “So if she doesn’t love him because he doesn’t have money, she’s not about the love”. NO FOOLS. You can not equally compare wanting to get into a relationship with someone stable versus already being in a relationship and someone suddenly gets unstable. NOBODY is saying that if you both were together and have been doing this equally, if the man falls on hard times you’re supposed to drop him. NOBODY SAID THAT. You ignorant hypocrites are saying that because that is literally the only way you can make a point about a female being cruel is if you talk about one ALREADY in a relationship and dropping her man because of bad circumstances. WE are talking about dating. DATING, you know that thing you do when you first meet someone you don’t know and are trying to get to know. All of you hyprocrites would be the exact same, being skeptical of getting involved with a female you know has no motivation to take care of her own things financially. Men invented the world golddigger afterall, so I don’t see why it’s hard to understand the very same concept in reverse. The only people who say money doesn’t matter, HAVE NONE and vehemently don’t want it to be important. Cause rent and bills and food and going from A to B is something they aren’t concerned with, PROBABLY because someone else is taking care of it. I haven’t seen but maybe ONE female in this whole thread actually say something negative about a guy not making enough money but guess what fools, we aren’t talking about men who are trying. We are not talking about men who bust their butts and can’t afford things because they are wise with their money. We are talking about dummies who are stuck on “nobody’s hiring” for 10 years cause the jobs that are hiring, they don’t want to do, but yet while they are making no money, they have the balls to ask for gifts. So you mean to say, this place is actually hiring but you don’t want to do it, and want to keep looking. Well I guess you can do that when you live with your parents. Mine are both dead so despite hating my job, I still have to come here to make money. But I’m the jerk cause none of the jobs YOU WANT, want you, so you just gonna stay broke and let me pay for everything huh? Let’s address the real problem here. Guys with nothing to offer other than fancy words and sex, getting mad about women who pay ALL the bills, pay for ALL the dinners, pay for all the clothes, shoes, outings, giving spending cash, don’t love you if they don’t keep you around. It’s even more hilarious when some schmuck comes around talking about “but you guys wanted equality”. We haven’t gotten it yet and apparently have to do even more since since the last 2-3 generations have turned into nothing but fckuboys who use the world love to manipulate. NONE of you fools are in love before you know what the person is about. You know if the person you are with is a golddigger, user, player at least by the 3rd meeting. If you’re only at the 3rd meeting and this guy with no job or low income is talking about love, he’s baiting you. That’s what they do. NOW, the difference between a couple who have each others backs who are deeply in love and one falls in hard times versus going out on a date with someone who has no job is the fact ya’ll already got to know each other, got to fall in love and now one is in hard times and THEN and only THEN should you be backing them up. Not these excuse filled broke fools looking for a sugarmomma, using the word love as bait, trying to manipulate you into pampering their buns while they leech off you. So bring it back to equality. Men were the breadwinners while the women were the homebodies. Can’t even find a man these days that knows how to use a dishwasher. The only difference between those days and now is men doing LESS and women doing MORE. Not only do we have make our own money because hyprocrites will cry golddigger, we also have to keep the home clean, cook the meals and take care of the kids. Honestly the real difference seems to be Women are doing more and Men are trying to do as less as possible, while flinging the word love around like that’s going to make it ok. How much caring about love was there when the woman was in the kitchen, cleaning and cooking and taking care of the kids? ZIP. Now suddenly you fools want to bring up love. Gotta get IN LOVE FIRST. Nobody falls in love at first sight with an ambitionless leech. Once again for the fools in the back, I’m not talking about men with low paying jobs. I’m talking about the broke bums who pass on jobs because they don’t want them, and the first thing out of their stupid mouth is “money isn’t important” when none of the money is coming out of their pocket. I literally just started talking to a guy with no job, who whined about how much money it cost to get the subway to my house, but in the same hour, he talking about money doesn’t matter. Apparently, money doesn’t matter as long as they aren’t the ones spending their own money.
Wow, look at all the comments. I’ll leave mine and read the rest. 1st great post, problem is it doesn’t specify the gap. If a guy is not permanently unemployed (and it is chronic with some guys, and women too) ….that’s a different question from the chronic. I don’t find money a factor, but I also am absolutely not going to date someone who can’t pull some financial weight. For the exact same reason I can barely pay the rent on a private apartment in So Cal. If anything, he needs to be able to help with that. There are certain survival issues at stake as you point out. I’ve seen guys marry for money, get kept, mooch off women —– so yeah guys absolutely do marry up, as I found at the private college I attended where there were a lot of rich kids. Believe me…they are status conscious and socially ambitious. It’s a whole other world from the journalism world and a lot of other worlds. The research on happiness is interesting. I’m pretty happy to be single for a few years now. Relationships can either sustain or drain over time. I had to get single, and survival is scary. I don’t have someone always there if my car breaks down, or if I need comfort, I have to get it on the phone these days. So it’s a gnarly life. But I still wouldn’t go back to not being single, for now. I need to learn to stand on my own, and I’m still learning it.
Not an easy situation to be in for anyone. I wld like to think that I have always valued a good heart and a kind soul above any financial abilities. That is not to say I don’t need money. Everyone has their own comfort level of financial security with a partner or without . Having been married and worked from bottom of the corporate world (when single) to gain success in our own business during marriage I must say I have been on both ends of the spectrum. I still left my marriage due to certain values not respected by ex and to me no amount of $$ can make me happy.
I am self sufficient now and have enough for myself and kids as well as my own home . I have met someone who is extremely compassionate and kind to the world but doesn’t have the same I do (which to me is totally fine as I don’t mind splitting or supplementing). He is a hard working, disciplined individual with a nice and respected career who I respect verymuch . However, I do sometimes get a sense of his self inflicted insecurities bcos of our income disparity. I do not know what to do from here. Since I know paying or buying things for him makes him feel uncomfortable but at the same time he feels pressured to go out to places he thinks I like or is accustomed to. He does sometimes internalize and somehow project these insecurities upon me and I feel unjustified and sad.
Any one has any ideas what to do? Btw, he is also a HSP (highly sensitive person)
Nice pity party at the end.
Women usually want Mr. Perfect to begin with, especially if he is very rich since most women today are real gold diggers anyway.
I don’t see wage as a requirement for a partner to be considered desirable. What matters more is their level of maturity. And that is clearly defined as there willingness to be a contributing partner (emotionally and financially).
Case in point. I fell in love with someone who turned out to be far from what they claimed to be. As time went by, I learned that he hadn’t paid his income taxes in years as he would hide his income from the IRS. He was a boy (exactly) in his early 50s. He had no savings, no retirement to fall upon in his later years. He had a business that was in shambles as he really had no interest in working. But would spend money like he had an endless supply, on frivolous items worth thousands of dollars. Yet, when it came time to be a financially contributing partner, he claimed to be “financially strapped”.
When it came down to Valentine’s day, I was told that it was wrong to expect a gift. In fact, I never expect anything. But given all that I have done, I would at least hope that he would love to take that opportunity to show me he cared. Nope. When it came down to Christmas, he decided to buy me a store model of an item (it was purchased on Xmas eve) that turned out to be broken. Lol. He returned it and I never saw a gift again. For our anniversary, I took him away on a beautiful getaway. All I received was a card and I was thankful for that.
This is a careless, self focused individual who honestly needs to be alone. And although it took time for me to realize this, at least I did.
I still believe that if I found myself again with someone who did not make my 6 figure salary, I would still consider them. However, I would let them know upfront that this is a partnership, 100%
I know the saying money can’t buy you happiness, but if he(boyfriend) shows no ambition to improve should I stay with him? He’s 59yrs old he just lost his job. He was devastated and I felt bad for him. He stated he was going to collect unemployment and having a little vacation time, this got me to think. I thought he would be out there trying to find work and take a kickback on unemployment. He said he’s researching for the right job, and doesn’t want any kind of job. He has credit card debt, no savings, no money in checking account other than unemployment. Staying at his brothers house and his car is 12yrs old. I’ve found out that he doesn’t stay at job for very long, the most was 10yrs. He’s a good person, but I need to be with someone with equal or more stability. I trying to find the way to end this relationship. Any advice? Thank you.
I guess I would fit the bill for being undesirable, Im 29 and currently work at a retail store making about $13 per hour, but I’m part time despite trying to apply for full time, I didn’t graduate from college and only have a high school degree, I don’t have a license in part due to my disability, I also live with my folks at the moment because I’m saving up money to move out and live in an apartment.
I get that food, children and dates are expensive but isn’t this kinda proof that Capitalism is fundamentally what’s wrong with the system? Shouldn’t people regardless of education or high wage or even how much money they save be able to afford a home, good infrastructure so they can work and even have a family?
Maybe I’m seeing this wrong but if I were to make like 20-25 per hour and own my own place and live somewhere I could walk to to grocery store I would be a happy clam. It just seems backwards and kinda silly we see it as a doggy eat doggy world where if you can’t support yourself (maybe your boss is underpaying you, maybe college is something you just aren’t cut out for, etc) than basically fuck you, you can never get married or have kids because you are a low value man.
Like why is the Mcdonalds worker somehow less value than a doctor or lawyer? I know plenty of shirt doctors and awful lawyers. I also know plenty of CEOs whom would be awful husbands and fathers, hell the president of the United States currently is the biggest jackass that’s killing us all due to the virus yet somehow “broke men” are less attractive than him?
I’m not saying you should settle but I think it’s important to question those type of things because is it really helping anyone?
Yes, Samwise. Capitalism is fundementally, completely, inexcusably, and irremediably what is wrong. ……
It is why we are all so unhappy. Why so many marriages fail. It is the cause of our collective Pain…….
So Let’s rid ourselves of it…… This requires all utilities be “open-source” and public. …It requires a society where ethics, honesty, and equality are an expectation at a personal-social level……And to get back to the original topic, where these values play an important role in mens’ and womens’ choices of life partners.
What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is it’s a woman’s choice who she wants to date. Period. It doesn’t matter what the man’s financial situation is and if she does want a richer man, then that is entirely in her right. She doesn’t have to date you if you are tens of thousands of dollars in debt – and most of all; she doesn’t need to struggle with you financially, either.
I find it outstanding how many men today simply can’t take no for an answer, and then get all defensive against the woman when they have been given the honesty they oh so desperately wanted. Fck off. You can be darn sure the last man who called me selfish really got an earful from me. I’d happily do the same to you if you’ve got a problem with a personal views. Which I wouldn’t change for any man in this world.
I’m dating a man 52 years old, he retired from his government job knowing his pension wouldn’t cover his living expenses. He moved in with his 75 year old mother and splits the bills ( rent, utilities…) with her. He got a part-time job, this is a man with a four year business degree, working at a miniature golf place for $11 an hour. I am 56, I’ve been a widow for 14 years, I put both of my daughters through college with no debt for them or me. I own my own home and pay my bills by myself. I can’t respect this man and it bothers me. I feel he should be totally supporting his mother. Am I wrong?
Dating is a process of getting to know someone with the potential for forming a romantic relationship. It usually involves spending time together and learning about each other’s interests, values, and personalities.
It sounds to me that you’re validating how this particular aspect of patriarchy can treat men unfairly, and I really REALLY appreciate that. It was this in particular:
“I’m not sure many — any — boys get the same message, and even in this presumably enlightened age, I just can’t see a parent encouraging a son to “marry up.””
I haven’t read too many of the responses, but from what I did see I think several men didn’t understand.
“Unemployed, under-employed and low-paid women are still dateable and marriage material, while guys are not. Meanwhile, highly paid women are dateable and marriage material, as long as they don’t make more than their husbands.”
I do believe there is still a fair amount of truth in the above quote – BUT – according to the PEW Research Center, not as much as it sounds like here.
To the men who are blaming women for this difference, I would urge you to reconsider- patriarchy is driving this. Who created patriarchy?
I’m fairly certain that there are more women today who are willing to date men who earn less, and that the above quote is not as true as it was, in 1980, for example. It is FEMINISM and equality that we have to thank for this, and this is a GOOD thing! The result is social equality. You guys who actually BLAME feminism???? You’ve got it backwards.
It is true though, that all too often women wind up taking on either more than their fair share or ALL the domestic work, and this is where men are holding up progress. I wish some of you guys would talk to your female relatives- ask them what their experiences have been.
As to the unhappiness in both partners when the woman earns more- I blame toxic masculinity. I read a story online, about a woman who made partner at her law firm….she was so excited and looking forward to telling her significant other- but it meant she was out-earning him. Instead of being proud of and excited for her, he started belittling her. It made me want to cry. This story is one that I believe most women have experienced at least once. Again though- I’m sure there are more men who wouldn’t do this, than there were decades ago.
But there are also success stories of couples where the woman provides and the man stays home and takes care of home and children. Men with no toxic masculinity (or who went to therapy) can knock this out of the park!
It’s funny how when the tables are turned, men get upset by a woman having standards with dating and marriage, particularly because men tend to be the most shallow beings on earth. Many will choose beauty or physical assets over brains and kidness any day. I definitely don’t belive that all men do this but many do. So, no, a woman should not settle for a man that she has to struggle with who will drag her into the ground, because the chances of him truly appreciating that support is slim. Additonally, men need to be more invested in their relationships and financial support is a very prominent way that a man shows his level of investment. Men lose focus and interest quick. They get bored quick. They are stimulated visually and that means they are more likely to stray no matter who is taking care of who. So WOMEN be WISE in choosing and don’t fall for the ole, “you are a gold digger” title. That title was set by men who didn’t want to do anything for women.